To think a national insurance increase is fair?

[postingfortraffichere]

Just that really - who else should pay for social care if we do not collectively pay for it ourselves.

I am highly likely to need care (currently fit and healthy and young but who knows what the future holds) Or someone in my family surely so why shouldn't we pay for it?

People seem to think there is endless money available to cover everything that is wrong with the country and there just isn't.

I feel like those expecting not to pay the cost are being somewhat entitled.

AIBU

Well my issue with it is 1) is it even enough money? 2) will it reach where it needs to reach? 3) will the NHS be free at the point of care when i'm older, will prescriptions be free, will my state pension age stay at 68?

I'm thinking no to those questions

I don't agree with taxing the wealthier people more and more because when that happens they go elsewhere to invest their money and that means less jobs and infrastructure for us all. It just doesn't work.
That is not correct at all.

[quote postingfortraffichere]@FrangipaniBlue I agree income tax would be preferable but I don't set the rules - and it is what it is.

[/quote]
So the NI rise, is in fact, by your own admission not fair - YABU

Inheritance tax is far too low.

@PlanDeRaccordement

You dont know that. The Treasury will decide how it's spent.

That’s what it is spent on. Look up the social care budget statistics.

Pensioners who are wealthy enough that they don't need to work won't pay.
Yes they will because the social care levy is also being added to dividend taxes. Plus you are forgetting most pensioners who don’t work it is because they cannot work due to disability, not because they are well off.

Homeowners in richer areas will have enough to pay and still leave a legacy. Homeowners in poorer areas will not.
But this law actually introduces a low cap of less than half the average U.K. house value such that many homeowners in poorer areas will now be able to leave a legacy. Before there was no cap. So the law improves this for homeowners in poorer areas.

Do you realise how much you can earn in dividends before you have to pay any tax? And what a low rate you pay when you do?

Do you really think that is what the NI increase will be used for? Or that it won't be scrapped by the time it will benefit you?! We have all been waiting for the government to tell us either tax or NI will increase to recoup for the furlough scheme and now they have but are disguising it as something else entirely. I've worked through the entire pandemic. I understand that some people physically cannot do their jobs from home but the furlough scheme went on far longer than the country could afford and now we are all paying for it.

I think YABU. It should have been done via tax. As many PP have said this means it's the poor coughing up yet again. Not to mention that the rate of NI paid falls once you hit a certain threshold so even the working wealthy are paying less of a share than the working poor.

No it's not fair and I work in social care. We work long hours, bad pay, wear full ppe, have covid tests weekly, mandatory covid vaccines and nkwnflunvaccines there considering. Work understaffed and we are under valued and now taking more of us. It's the private company's that should be reducing there prices.

Now flu *

It should be on general taxation or some sort of capital gains tax on inheritance.

Putting it on NI punishes the employed and particular the low paid, while wealthy pensioners pay nothing.

I agree with the Levy - we've got to pay for Adult Social Care somehow, not least to raise standards of care but also to raise the working conditions of the low-paid workers who provide that care.

Rather than blaming this that and the other, a good start would be to legislate that all Social Care workers were paid according to NHS Rules with the same T&Cs and entitlements.

YANBU

Did you think the money would be put aside for later? It won't be - the word 'insurance" is a con. It's a tax, that will mostly go to cover the care of a generation that as a group has received far more in state benefits than they have ever paid in, who will not need to pay any of this even if they receive tens of thousands per year in a private pension, and will then leave their houses to benefit their kids, not the lower earners who DO pay national insurance but won't have many people left to pay for theirs when they get old.

What I think is bizarre is that I am a higher rate tax payer but my partner earns over 10x what I do and still only pays 5% more tax. I don’t understand how it caps off at £150,000. Surely if they introduced more bands it would more effectively tax the rich? I don’t know if it would generate enough to cover what they hope to raise with the NI increase but it seems bonkers to me.

Typical Tory tax that squeezes money out of lower earners whilst protecting the wealthy. It's not going to fix any social care issues, they've just used that as a handy shield to force through a tax hike. But lots of people still haven't clocked that.

YABU. And gullible.

@mobear

What I think is bizarre is that I am a higher rate tax payer but my partner earns over 10x what I do and still only pays 5% more tax. I don’t understand how it caps off at £150,000. Surely if they introduced more bands it would more effectively tax the rich? I don’t know if it would generate enough to cover what they hope to raise with the NI increase but it seems bonkers to me.

Social care shortfalls also havent been helped by years of council tax freezes in so many places.

Round here you will pay nearly as much council tax on a flat as on a massive 4 bed house, because housing prices have shot up but not the bands

@OverTheRubicon Yes, I agree with that too! I know for a fact council tax is very inconsistent around West London and a property worth twice as much as another can have a council tax bill nearly 1/2 of a property worth 1/2 as much.

YABU. However, I live in a former 'red wall' area of the country and I'm still scratching my head at what precisely these people thought they were going to get when they decided to lend their votes to the tories.

I also don't buy the argument that further taxation is necessary. This is about wasting money, nothing more.

No it’s not fair. Don’t forget the lowest earners are about to lose the £1k they had in UC to help them through the pandemic. They’re struggling enough as it is.

Both my parents and my PILs are far better off than we will ever be and earn significant amounts from their pensions. They should be contributing to this. If it was on income tax they would be. The only reason they’re not is because the Government know they will lose votes if they upset the silver voters.

What grates on me is we’re expecting the younger ones to dig deep when it’s already really hard for them but not only that we all know, deep down, that in 20 years or less there won’t be a state pension and there probably won’t be an NHS so they’re going to be well and truly shafted.

How the hell did ppl think they were going to pay for all these lockdowns
Y"all didnt see this coming when THEY ARE TORIES???!!!

YANBU. Although I'd be happier with it if they had frozen the triple lock for five years rather than one.

But in general I think it's reasonable. People have this weird idea that most pensioners are wealthy but that really isn't the case. Occupational or private pensions only became compulsory in 2016 so there are millions of people who only have the state £180 a week.

I do wonder how people feel witnessing that the Brexit £350m for the NHS was total bollocks, nothing seems to budge their view about the lies told

@Mintjulia

YANBU. Although I'd be happier with it if they had frozen the triple lock for five years rather than one.

But in general I think it's reasonable. People have this weird idea that most pensioners are wealthy but that really isn't the case. Occupational or private pensions only became compulsory in 2016 so there are millions of people who only have the state £180 a week.

wealthy pensioners are wealthy, though, and they are paying nothing.

Don’t forget the lowest earners are about to lose the £1k they had in UC to help them through the pandemic. They’re struggling enough as it is.

Yes interestingly, the UK government did not increase disabled benefits by £20/week and these are already lower than UC. So the extra £1k unemployed got, disabled did not get. This NI will pay mostly for disabled people of working age. They lost out during the pandemic. And really, the disabled are the poorest in U.K. society not the lowest earners.

wealthy pensioners are wealthy, though, and they are paying nothing

They’ll pay an extra 1.25% tax on all dividend income.