To be shocked that same-sex marriage isn’t legal in Switzerland?

[plodalong12]

They’re holding a referendum on it this month. I’m not Swiss, nor follow the goings-on in Switzerland but I (wrongly) assumed that same-sex marriage was legal there. For some reason I thought it was one of the first countries that legalised it.

But there's no threads on MN Switzerland about noisy raves in back gardens on a Tuesday or people burning stuff and ruining washing.

Well there wouldn't be if half the population have their national service pistol in the bedside table.
The plus to having an armed population.
But I think suicides are high.

@Jaysmith71

Swiss women first got the vote in 1971, with the last Canton to ban them conceding in 1990.

I just came on to the thread to post exactly this. It's not a nice place.

I lived in Switzerland (French speaking part) for two years in quite a rural area. It was quite conservative but also more ethnically diverse than where I live in the UK, and there was far more active engagement in the democratic process, at least at local level, with lots of parties to choose from when voting (not to mention frequent referenda). On the other hand, however, there was absolutely no scope for involvement for foreign nationals in voting etc until you got Swiss citizenship which was a lengthy and expensive process (but, of course, you had to pay your Swiss taxes regardless). I do remember being taken aback by a xenophobic poster which appeared during one election campaign.

The standard of living was high and I found the Swiss very respectful, polite and friendly once you got to know them. A Swiss version of Mumsnet would definitely not have the same number of CF neighbour posts as this one!

In addition, our experience of schools (state) was fantastic as was the quality of the health system (which made me question the sacred cow of the NHS back home). Sunday rules restricting grass mowing and shop opening made Sundays more peaceful and family-orientated, although boredom could set in on a wet winter's day and, for working parents, Saturdays could be a nightmare dash of domestic jobs to get done before Sunday.

Swiss TV was truly appalling but the size of the chocolate aisles in supermarkets was something to behold!

MrsTerryPratchett, you sound a bit defensive but I don't mean to have a massive go at Switzerland, just passing comment.

Do I? I don't feel it

I always think it's interesting when countries are different but people in the UK assume that means 'worse'.

I mean you can look at equal marriage, historical voting rights and armed services. You can also look at a history of neutrality (yes I know that's controversial), truly progressive action on the global opiate epidemic, assisted suicide, genuinely direct and participatory democracy, and shit tons of chocolate and cheese.

Borrow the good, reject the bad. That's what I say.

@MasterBeth

The UK legalised same-sex marriage eight years ago. YABU to expect everyone else to fall in line within a decade.

Not even that recently for the whole UK, Northern Ireland was only last yet.

@Nandakanda

As far as I’m aware, same sex marriage is not legal in China, India, Pakistan, Nigeria, Bangladesh, most of the Caribbean, Turkey, Iran, Russia, Indonesia and pretty much all of Africa. That probably accounts for around 70% of the world population.

Why the negative focus on Switzerland?

My intention was not to be negative about Switzerland, it’s just that I read in the news about 5 minutes before making the thread that it was going to be holding a referendum on same sex marriage soon which I was shocked by for reasons as outlined in my OP.

@MasterBeth

The UK legalised same-sex marriage eight years ago. YABU to expect everyone else to fall in line within a decade.

I wasn’t comparing it to the UK, the reason I was shocked upon reading the news was because I thought it was one of the first countries to legalise it, and didn’t realise it hadn’t yet.

@Stircraazy

But there's no threads on MN Switzerland about noisy raves in back gardens on a Tuesday or people burning stuff and ruining washing.

Well there wouldn't be if half the population have their national service pistol in the bedside table.
The plus to having an armed population.
But I think suicides are high.

Not a deterrent in reality, as although it's true that all men of military serviceable age do keep their guns at home, with responsibility for maintaining them, all ammunition is stored centrally by the military so nothing to fire!

As a ten-year resident here in CH I can confirm the Sunday rules....also a lot of apt blocks (usually older buildings) don't allow showering or baths between 2200-0700....the 'nachtruhe' (night's rest) is strictly enforced during this time, so no noise allowed that can be heard outside your house. Sunday is no mowing, construction, noisy DIY etc - still very much an old fashioned day of rest.

It's not so much that the Swiss hold conservative values, rather that they are resistant to change.

Surprisingly they almost voted for a popular inititiative last year on a binding legal framework to hold multinationals to account for human rights and environmental abuses committed abroad. The Canton that houses Nestle HQ voted overwhelmingly yes. Would have been really interesting if it had passed.

Plus in my experience the health care is amazing, and support for kids with additional needs is outstanding. But the whole system is set up for one parent to stay at home. You win some you lose some I guess.

It's not so much that the Swiss hold conservative values, rather that they are resistant to change.

Isn't that pretty much the definition of 'conservative'?

Sorry and thanks for correcting my mistake, I mixed up same and opposite sex civil partnerships. But still same sex partnerships have been legal in Switzerland for quite a while now.

@IcedPurple

It's not so much that the Swiss hold conservative values, rather that they are resistant to change.

Isn't that pretty much the definition of 'conservative'?

You might be right!

@the80sweregreat

I've never been there and I don't think I ever will now!

There are loads of countries in which same sex marriage is outlawed - India, lots of African countries, Middle East and most of the Far East. Would you not visit any of those countries?

@DopamineDresser in your opinion do you think Switzerland will vote in favour of yes or no on this referendum? And out of interest (though you don’t have to answer!) how are you voting, or, are you allowed to vote or not?

@IcedPurple

It's not so much that the Swiss hold conservative values, rather that they are resistant to change.

Isn't that pretty much the definition of 'conservative'?

Small c yes. Big C no. People get them muddled up. The Conservative Party, for example isn't actually very conservative. Laissez faire economic theory and the like aren't.

[quote plodalong12]@DopamineDresser in your opinion do you think Switzerland will vote in favour of yes or no on this referendum? And out of interest (though you don’t have to answer!) how are you voting, or, are you allowed to vote or not?[/quote]
Difficult to say, as I think the vote will vary wildly between the Cantons - I live in a pretty Catholic, conservative Canton & I suspect it could fail to pass here, whereas in more progressive places like Bern I'm sure it'll go through. I think, on balance, it will go through, but there are some quite right wing, religious, parties that will do their best to stop it unfort (same ones who managed to get the minaret ban through).

Unfortunately I can't vote, as you have to be a citizen to vote & that's a veeeeery long (can be 15 year) process, and not straightforward at all. So I just watch & wait for the results to appear that Sunday PM!

In addition, our experience of schools (state) was fantastic as was the quality of the health system (which made me question the sacred cow of the NHS back home)

Switzerland spends $7,732 USD per capita on healthcare. The UK only spends $4,653 (2019 figures). That could have something to do with it.

I’ve read two things about Switzerland that shocked me. One is that during WWII, the neutral Swiss shot down both Allied and Axis aircraft.

The other was that some rural Swiss eat cats and dogs.

I hope neither is true.

An airplane flying into a neutral country's airspace in wartime would expect to be shot down, would t it?

Maybe I’m being naive! But the Nazis ignored Dutch neutrality and always planned to invade Switzerland at some point.

@Rubyupbeat

I love Switzerland and the swiss in general. They are a very conservative people so this doesn't surprise me at all.

I agree.

I love Switzerland, been many times, for both work and leisure. I’ve found the Swiss to be impeccably polite and very cultured people.

Generalisation of course, as I haven’t met the whole population but I would happily live there (not a hope as not wealthy enough!).

Plus, Roger Federer. Any nation that produces the greatest ever tennis player can’t be all bad. 😀

I knew a man who grew up there but left as a young adult. He said it was quite stifling as the culture is very conformist.

I always think it's interesting when countries are different but people in the UK assume that means 'worse'.

I wasn't saying it was 'worse' per se. Just commenting on a couple of things I thought I vaguely knew about the country, and remembering something I read once.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58696604

Good news from Switzerland.

You're probably thinking Scandinavian countries that are forward thinking.

Women didn't get the vote in Switzerland until 1970s

I lived in Switzerland for a while. Men are entitled to between one and three days of parental leave, same amount as if you move house. It is usually less expensive if one parent stops working when the kids are young. In my experience there racism was very much accepted in younger generations as well. When you are old health insurance can be up to £1000 per month. The right wing party had an advert that was literally a field of white sheep on a Swiss flag, and one of them was kicking out a black sheep. It was about keeping out foreigners with a criminal record I think. This was on bus stops and billboards. It is very very conservative!!! I am half surprised that they voted so overwhelmingly to legalise same sex marriage but glad that they did.