I'm so sick of people buying multiple properties for BTL

[flashbac]

So the landlord next door has hoovered up another house on the street for BTL. A nice house that wasn't even on the market but they managed to get their mits on it. Yes I know I sound bitter because I am! I'm so fed up of investors hoovering up all the houses. There should be a limit but with most of our government being BTL landlords nothing will change.
I'm sick of the increasing gap between rich and poor.
now runs and hides because reckons half of MN have a BTL or holiday home

The UK is a strange place. Adults in their 30s cannot afford to live on their own, yet you have people asking why people aren’t getting married and having babies.

I have never seen anything like this. How can you expect young people to have a future if they have to have a flatmate until mid 30s? Does no one in government see that this is problematic?

Get a grip with rental contracts, more rights for tenants and away with the “I need to go on the housing ladder” attitude.

The first two would help with the third point. Tenants should be able to treat a rented property as their own - currently most tenancy agreements prohibit putting up so much as a picture hook without written permission, never mind repainting or having a pet. I believe that the continental renting system is more like this, hence why people are happier to rent. All the time renting is a) insecure and b) the shitty choice, people will stretch themselves to buy. The flip side of tenancies being more secure is that when a tenant does need to leave, the landlord shouldn't have to go through the ridiculous hoop of section 21 notice/tenant won't leave because the council won't deem them homeless if they go voluntarily/landlord has to get a court order.

You would be wrong.

The housing crisis is caused by failure to build enough homes

How is building more homes the answer when they just get snapped up by pension funds or Buy to Leave overseas investors?

We live in a capitalist society. If you have the money, you should be able to buy whatever you want

No, we live in a mixed economy. And even relatively right wing countries
like the UK feature A LOT of state interference in the capitalist market via the enforcing of standards which protect people from unscrupulous capitalists/poor/dangerous standards.

Does no one in government see that this is problematic?

Quite a lot of government ministers are also landlords, IIRC. The turkeys aren't going to vote for Christmas, even if it is the morally right thing to do.

@Nosferatussidebit

I really disagree.

There's been loads of times in my life where I've needed to rent and buying wasn't an appropriate option. If there hadn't been so many private landlords I'd have had to pay astronomical rent, or miss out on job opportunities because I had nowhere to live.

I agree with this too. I have just come out of a rental after 9 months as I was in between relocating. Most of the houses on that street were rented. Close community and nobody I spoke to wanted to buy. Next door were a couple who have just emigrated from Hong Kong, the other side best friends who had just moved out of parents home for the first time, over the road a couple who had just decided to move in together and try a new area. It is supply and demand and not everybody wants to buy for various reasons.

But I do see it from the other side too I have teenagers and I do fear for their future housing, I do not know what the answer is but whilst there is demand and no cap of the number of properties people can own this will always be an issue.

@CayrolBaaaskin

Also these Btl properties are bought on the open market where anyone can offer. There’s no unfairness- owner occupiers can buy just the same.

This isn't true. Lots of BTL landlords buy without surveys, and with no mortgage so for the seller it is an easier and quicker sale. They're also statistically less likely to fall through as owner occupiers at the lower end of the market are likely less experienced and more easily put off/ scared by bad sounding but generally routine survey wording.

Some estate agents who have Landlords as frequent buyers will at times offer properties to them first if they think they're what they like- saves marketing costs.

@flashbac... have a look at his site and maybe read the book.. whoownsengland.org/2017/10/28/who-owns-central-london/.

BTL landlords are only a piece of the picture..... there are literally bigger fish to fry.

And see who gets agricultural land subsidies... unearthed.greenpeace.org/2016/09/29/common-agricultural-policy-millions-eu-subsidies-go-richest-landowners/.

www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jan/27/revealed-the-mps-and-peers-receiving-millions-in-eu-farm-subsidies-cap

The trouble with building more council homes is some people will do their three years, get a huge discount and buy them , then move on!
You need rules to stop this happening.
The ' right to buy ' should be abolished.
It won't happen though as would be seen as 'unfair' I suppose and a vote loser maybe too?
Again, people are only happy when it benefits them ( as many of my friends have discovered when inheriting hundreds of thousands of pounds in properties that once were affordable for ordinary people )
Many are actually only thinking of the inheritance they will get ' one day' and a few people I know are already mortgage free in their thirties as well.
It is fast becoming ' them and us ' when it comes to home owning.

BTL is the rootcause of homelessness and people who own 2 properties should be ashamed.We are living in a very me me me society.One day this massive houseing bubble will burst.The house prices are ridiculous and dont reflect at all the reality.This is,because in Britain people crave to accummulate money without lifting a finger.So when there is a crisis,like Covid19 or flooding etc.,the main concern for people is: oh,thank goodness,the houseprices have not dropped! And no,I am not a communist,I come from an affluent country,where the state puts some control on the greedy bastards,eg.they pay a massive amount of tax.the state owns most rented property and there are strict laws on how much a private landlord can put up the rent(minimal!)

YANBU - you might find this book Rentier Capitalism interesting.

I read that Lloyds Bank are buying so much BTL property they will soon be Britain's biggest landlord.

The problem is that interest rates have been so low for so long they can make more money from renting out houses than from lending mortgages for ordinary people to buy them.

As so often happens the poorest in our society lose out.

Many politicians have a huge interest in properties and buy to let's. Once the chancellor dropped the stamp duty for a while , who do you think were on the case to buy even more ?
He wasn't thinking of the normal people ..

@reesewithoutaspoon
Its crap but saving rates are so dire that for many it offers the best return on their investment

Well actually a direct investment in safe stocks (eg, S&p500 ETF) would offer a safer/better return for many people than becoming a landlord, plus minus the stress. I guess there’s a small learning curve which most people can’t be bothered with.

I agree with the original poster but at the same time interest rates have fallen so much what can you do. Back in the 80s if you had £100k in the bank you could be earning £7-8k interest on it each year to live on in retirement, whereas now £100k in the bank equals basically no interest at all so older people are buying properties to get the returns. Give us proper interest rates at the bank and we will stop buying properties!

@lassingd

Tax is used to control behaviour. Tax on BTL is less than stamp duty on primary residences in places like Germany.

So the government want BTL to buy more houses. Why? No idea, but buck stops with them. It's very easy to control behaviour with taxes.

I think you need to research before you mention taxes, second properties or more in the UK cost 40% stamp duty.

[quote FangsForTheMemory]@dangerrabbit The root cause of the housing crisis is that Thatcher let thousands of people buy their council homes and councils never built new ones.[/quote]
Yes, it was dreadful that That Woman did that.

But as Blossomtoes said, the councils were not allowed to spend the money to build new council houses.

Thatcher's game plan was to get rid of all social housing. Not quite sure where she expected people to live, if there was no affordable housing - perhaps she envisioned the return of the workhouses herself? But she didn't want "the State" paying for any of it. That's why she sold off all the nationalised companies as well.

@Journeyofthedragons

the vast majority of landlords are providing a valuable and much needed service

A much needed service that is perpetuated by their actions.

No.

As I've previously said - there's loads of times I've chosen to rent because it was the better option for me. It was a needed service. I could have afforded to buy, but it was too time consuming, inconvenient or I wasn't planning on staying in the area very long.

I agree, it's disgusting I greedy.

YANBU- it's awful, disgusting. Something needs to change and fast.

Ok, change it to access to drinking water.

Which isn't free.

There's been loads of times in my life where I've needed to rent and buying wasn't an appropriate option. If there hadn't been so many private landlords I'd have had to pay astronomical rent, or miss out on job opportunities because I had nowhere to live …. It’s supply and demand and not everybody wants to buy for various reasons

The problem isn’t rentals, it’s the balance of the market. When renting has become more cost prohibitive than buying (which is itself also ridiculously priced in some parts of the country) there is a big problem. The rental market is then no longer part of the “solution” of a functioning and content society, but part of the problem. Pure supply and demand capitalism is fine for things like fizzy drinks, vehicles, cinema tickets but it doesn’t work for the essentials of life. For that you need intelligent, forward thinking central planning PLUS the market. Right now we only have the market.

I read that Lloyds Bank are buying so much BTL property they will soon be Britain's biggest landlord

John Lewis plans to build 10,000 rental homes

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57712618

Large companies are seeing the vast amount of profit to be extracted from people unable to buy, this is the future for your children/grandchildren.

Selling off the council homes was the most destructive thing to happen in the 1980s.
I know many became millionaires from it , I know it was popular and a vote winner and I appreciate that it was seen as inspirational and I also appreciate that many politicians such as Tony Blair etc are also 'property millionaires' , but it was very short sighted and has led to today's greed and the general housing shortage.
It's just my opinion , many of my friends would t agree with me at all of course as they have benefited from its induction and will be much richer than i ever will be!
It's just sad that people on normal wages are finding it so hard to buy anything these days.
It'll only get worse too I think :(
Wished I had the answers though .

The first two would help with the third point. Tenants should be able to treat a rented property as their own - currently most tenancy agreements prohibit putting up so much as a picture hook without written permission, never mind repainting or having a pet. I believe that the continental renting system is more like this, hence why people are happier to rent. All the time renting is a) insecure and b) the shitty choice, people will stretch themselves to buy. The flip side of tenancies being more secure is that when a tenant does need to leave, the landlord shouldn't have to go through the ridiculous hoop of section 21 notice/tenant won't leave because the council won't deem them homeless if they go voluntarily/landlord has to get a court order.

The reality in UK is though that whilst landlords can stipulate what they like in a contract, virtually none of it is enforceable. And whilst you may say they can evict you - it's actually very hard and expensive and takes a long time and certainly wouldn't be done because someone repainted, hung a picture or even had a pet. An inspection would have to show serious damage for the landlord to consider the eviction process. Accidental landlords are more likely to try it, but often get it wrong and spend lots of money for nothing. And now that deposits are protected, it's really quite hard for a landlord to withhold it if the tenant disputes it (which is easy and free).

YANBU. If there were enough houses to go around then yes fair enough but there isn't and it means that those in lower paid jobs such as serving staff, cleaners, care workers, nursery staff, delivery drivers, shop workers and so many others who all work very, very hard for long hours and very little pay can never hope to own their own homes. They are stuck paying extortionate rent (my partner and I pay almost £300 a month more in private rent than a mortgage would cost us), we have no hope of getting a council house because there are none and no hope of ever saving a deposit despite the fact that we can more than afford a mortgage and would be better off financially, as well as in a more stable position for our children. We would jump at the chance to be able to actually call somewhere home but like many others we will never get that opportunity and it is only going to get worse for future generations. Apart from those who will get a very large inheritance of course and so the cycle of the rich getting richer while the poor get poorer continues.