I'm so sick of people buying multiple properties for BTL

[flashbac]

So the landlord next door has hoovered up another house on the street for BTL. A nice house that wasn't even on the market but they managed to get their mits on it. Yes I know I sound bitter because I am! I'm so fed up of investors hoovering up all the houses. There should be a limit but with most of our government being BTL landlords nothing will change.
I'm sick of the increasing gap between rich and poor.
now runs and hides because reckons half of MN have a BTL or holiday home

I can't blame people if they are able to buying a holiday home though. If I had enough money I would definitely consider buying a second home.

I can see the attraction but parts of wales would disagree so perhaps more regulation or tax is needed.

Pembrokeshire village has more holiday homes than residents

I think the problem with the housing market is not enough new housing being built - and often the wrong type of housing when it is - and council housing being sold off pushing more people into private sector - and possible the type of rental agreements that are common here. BTL can be an issue in some areas in others I think it's a scapegaot for bigger failings.

(I don't own any BTL properties and stuggled to get on housing ladder at all no bank of Mum and Dad here just over a decade of hard saving and picking where in UK we could actually afford to live - large parts we couldn't and we now worry about my DC future).

YANBU. It is sickeningly greedy of these individuals to buy up homes just to make money. It puts families like mine in a horrible position where we can't have pets, we can't put up shelves, we are stuck with horrible furniture we can't get rid of... And every year we have to find another fifty quid per month because the rent keeps going up. Or, we can move multiple times, never settling in one place. We pay about £200 more than we would if it was a mortgage. It sucks.

Given the staggeringly high amount of MPs (across all parties, but especially the Conservatives) who are MPs, plus their general attitude to the poor and their love of the free market, I can't see anything changing soon . Even my (Labour) councillor is a landlord, so no use speaking to her about it either!

I think you're getting angry at the wrong people.

I work for a housing developer that sells 80% (if not more) of all their new build housing to foreign investors who use the properties as holiday homes...or not even at all. They can afford to leave the houses empty for years on end and not even step foot in them and just use them as investments.

These are buyers from UAE, China, America.

We have one property that was bought 3 years ago - the welcome drinks are still on their kitchen side untouched and collecting dust.

THIS is why there is a housing shortage. The land we are using up to build housing is being snapped up by investors who have no desire to actually step foot in this country and utilise a property that could actually house somebody.

I thought it was just applicable to London with these foreign buyers but nope my friend who works in one of the home county divisions has foreign investors buying detached "country" houses there too.

The introduction of a greater tax on foreign buyers should improve this issue but I doubt it will deter them!

Its crap but saving rates are so dire that for many it offers the best return on their investment.

I wouldn’t want to live in a country where the government had control over whether or not a private individual or company could own assets they were able to afford to buy

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I think we need to distinguish between freedom to buy assets an individual or company can afford to buy and hoarding.

When there is no supply / demand imbalance I don't think anyone would mind for example on how many shoes, handbags or cars a person owns because there is no structural shortage of these items.

But when there is a supply/ demand imbalance such as in housing then owning more of a particular asset than is required for personal use in order to drive up prices becomes hoarding and does warrant intervention. For example during the height of the pandemic if someone were to buy up alot of face masks in order to sell on at a profit then this becomes hoarding.

This is especially so where the asset is a necessity such as housing, water, energy or medical care and less where the asset is a luxury such as handbags.

@randomlyLostInWales

I can't blame people if they are able to buying a holiday home though. If I had enough money I would definitely consider buying a second home.

I can see the attraction but parts of wales would disagree so perhaps more regulation or tax is needed.

Pembrokeshire village has more holiday homes than residents

I think the problem with the housing market is not enough new housing being built - and often the wrong type of housing when it is - and council housing being sold off pushing more people into private sector - and possible the type of rental agreements that are common here. BTL can be an issue in some areas in others I think it's a scapegaot for bigger failings.

(I don't own any BTL properties and stuggled to get on housing ladder at all no bank of Mum and Dad here just over a decade of hard saving and picking where in UK we could actually afford to live - large parts we couldn't and we now worry about my DC future).

It would be Wales I would buy in. But if I am honest there is more chance of me selling my home and moving full time than ever ever having enough money to buy a second home.

Maybe additional costs is the answer.

I agree something needs to be done about affordable housing, what my area doesn't need any more of is fucking luxury flats, when we don't have the schools, doctors, roads etc to support more people coming in and its a struggle to even get a rental now, when I was looking a few years ago, I was told the bare minimum to get a two bed flat I would have to have a joint income of over £30k.

The population of the UK increased by around 10 million people between 1990 and 2020.

To meet the housing demands created by this increase we needed to build the equivalent of 10 cities the size of Leeds - along with other infrastructure such as schools, hospitals, leisure facilities etc. Successive governments failed to address the problem.

Moaning about BTL landlords entirely misses the point.

on about BTL

The statistic I heard the other day that shocked me was that 40% of right to buy homes are now in the private rented sector. I’m not usually in favour of interfering in the market much but it doesn’t seem right. There should be a way of returning them back to the social rented sector if the original right to buy homeowner who received the discount wants to sell up and move on.

I don’t think BTL should be banned, HOWEVER, I do think that the cost of housing needs to be controlled. In the 1980’s, two people on minimum wage could afford to purchase a small flat, but I think that’s just about impossible now.
Rent caps in each area should firstly set the top price that can be charged per square metre of living space, and anyone charging more should be asset-stripped if found out. That measure alone would release a large proportion of previous BTL property onto the market (and cause property prices to fall.) The Government should then impose price caps on property (again, top price per square metre) to slow down the cost of housing over a number of years until housing is affordable to all and the purchase of housing as financial assets is no longer attractive.
I don’t think it will happen, but I think it’s the only way of returning to affordable housing for all...

As an ex buy to let investor I can assure you the government is killing the BTL industry.

We sold last year, now only buying furnished holiday let's - better deal for tax!

If anyone wants a holiday in Bournemouth let me know 😊

@GreenWillow

I wouldn’t want to live in a country where the government had control over whether or not a private individual or company could own assets they were able to afford to buy

This.

I think a lot of MNers (and the political left in general) are very naive and trusting when it comes to the relationship between the State and the Individual.

And I think a lot of right wing people are very naive and trusting when it comes to the relationship between business and the individual. Power is just as likely to accumulate in unaccountable hands via commerce as via government.

There will always be a need for rental properties though. My husband has a job where we moves every 1-3 years, sometimes abroad. This means that I am never going to really progress in my career despite being qualified as a surveyor.

We are therefore planning on purchasing three properties in the next year to rent out as a business. They’ll be administered correctly as I studied landlord and tenant law at university as part of my degree and have managed hundreds of on country estates. It’s the best option to give our family security wherever in the world we are required to live. At the end of the day, people are always going to do what’s best for their family.

@dangerrabbit

YANBU

I consider BTL and buy to leave to be the root causes of the housing crisis.

I agree.

Can I ask a daft question... please don't shout at me.

Suppose I want to live somewhere for 6 months.
I don't qualify for public housing -- I don't want to qualify.
I do not want to buy.
If private investment landlords don't exist, who would I rent from -- how would I meet my housing needs?

@FrankOrTheBeans Yes, I'd forgotten about the "Buy to Leave" investors. They should have to prove that their properties are occupied otherwise they are forfeited to the state after a period of time and sold. That would sort the problem out!

Absolutely spot on @Notjustanymum. And I’d rather eat my own liver than put money in the pocket of a tax dodger @Champersandchocolate.

YANBU. It is sickeningly greedy of these individuals to buy up homes just to make money

Absolutely, it is exploitative of the the lower paid who can't get access to mortgages and as shameful as payday loan companies.

Also anyone who thinks the vast majority of over 25s who rent wouldn't prefer to buy is seriously deluded.

Same on our street. A woman a few doors down from me had half a house left to her by an elderly man on the street, now she has bought another one on the road.

LST Wales is lovely - we don't live in tourist but but just over boarder - couldn't afford the English city that DH works in.

Prices have gone up hugely here because so many are in the same boat - nearby English cities are affected by people exiting London housing market pushing prices up - the problem gets pushed out and out.

But then I can't afford to live where I grew up house prices went through roof in my childhood and kept on going - my siblings still in the area one in a council property after 10 years including bouts of homelessness and other rents privately with children and has constant worry that goes along with that.

Though my parents complain about the huge amount of housing that's been built there in last few years.

Where DH grew up house ownership is now a mix of older locals and communters to nearby cities - as his generation increraingly has to rent or move even further out.

Hence my worry about the DC - there are fewer and fewer reasonably priced areas to aim for never mind trying to marry then up with work and carrer progression.

If someone is living in the house, then that’s less of a problem. People will always require rentals.

However, as @FrankOrTheBeans observes, many properties are bought and never occupied. Someone I know lives in Croydon. A block of flats was built opposite him, and all sold off plan. Not once in five years has anyone lived there. They were sold to a Chinese company, just investing in Uk property.

In fact I read that other cities such as Bristol are proving attractive to absent Chinese property investors. I suppose flats are particularly good because unlike a house you can leave them and they do not get vandalised or squatted in.

@LST

randomlyLostInWales
I can't blame people if they are able to buying a holiday home though. If I had enough money I would definitely consider buying a second home.

I can see the attraction but parts of wales would disagree so perhaps more regulation or tax is needed.

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I agree on your point on regulation or taxation. I think the issue comes down to externalities on the societal cost of buying a second home meaning locals cannot buy a family home

Similarly whilst it would be individually logical to buy a big gas guzzling 4x4 (if I could afford it) to better protect my family inside the car, it would produce an external cost to society in higher pollution and to pedestrians who would be less likely to survive being knocked over than if I had say a smaller city car.

Individuals will generally act in their own interest or selfishly without regulation or being taxed on their decisions.

Oh and I disagree with Homes under the Hammer being irresponsible: there are many people who buy wrecks, do them up and sell them on - which is, to a certain extent, what the housing stock needs. We thought about investing in properties to rent, but decided against it because we felt it would be morally dubious. The problem is that you would have to charge the “right” rent for the area, which might seem “too high”, but if you were to charge less, then an unscrupulous tenant may be tempted to sub-let to gain financial advantage...

@seaandsandcastles

Why shouldn’t they buy? They have the money, the property is for sale, the seller is happy to sell. End of.

We live in a capitalist society. If you have the money, you should be able to buy whatever you want.

I’m not in favour of intervention in markets and I don’t agree with the OP.

However a lot of capital is going into this sector which is otherwise quite unproductive in terms of jobs and trade. The money would be better invested in industry and commerce. Particularly in depressed areas where there is ironically lots of available housing.

It’s not the cause of the housing crisis. The UK doesn’t build enough of the right type of home in the right places.

I think there is a big difference between BTL and holiday homes.
There are so many properties lying empty and in a state of disrepair that could be homes for people. The council won't/can't fix them up. I know a couple of people who have bought properties like this, renovated them and provided nice homes for families at a fair rent. There are good landlords out there, we only hear about the bad ones.
Where I live, we are surrounded by new build flats, all of them bought up at inflated prices by non UK citizens and left empty.
I don't think non UK citizens should be allowed to buy/own more than one property in the UK. This is the law in most other countries.