I'm so sick of people buying multiple properties for BTL

[flashbac]

So the landlord next door has hoovered up another house on the street for BTL. A nice house that wasn't even on the market but they managed to get their mits on it. Yes I know I sound bitter because I am! I'm so fed up of investors hoovering up all the houses. There should be a limit but with most of our government being BTL landlords nothing will change.
I'm sick of the increasing gap between rich and poor.
now runs and hides because reckons half of MN have a BTL or holiday home

Yeah me too but that's capitalism innit. No way you could regulate this without opening up a legal can of worms that would topple the whole system. In principle I agree its a shitty system - it's not right at all that a tiny minority can hoard wealth they'll never touch in their grandchildren's lifetime while others starve - but I have no idea how to design a better alternative that would actually work.

@IceLace100 so you'd like existing tenants to be chucked out so you can buy? Nice.

@the80sweregreat

I'm sure that any buy to let landlord / lady would say they pay a huge amount of tax and it's not all profit etc. of course, people appreciate this, but in order to start their portfolio took money to start with or a leg up from somewhere. They will probably be very quiet about how that happened for them. Not everyone has the same chances in life to build an empire sadly.

Remortgage one house. Raise deposit to BTL mortgage on second house. Wait a couple years. Rinse and Repeat with the original BTL Mortgage property. Banks will help with this and there's lots of guides online from Uswithc and others.

@the80sweregreat

I'm sure that any buy to let landlord / lady would say they pay a huge amount of tax and it's not all profit etc. of course, people appreciate this, but in order to start their portfolio took money to start with or a leg up from somewhere. They will probably be very quiet about how that happened for them. Not everyone has the same chances in life to build an empire sadly.

I’m quite happy to be vocal about how I afforded to buy BTL property. I lived in a one-bed ex-council flat in a part of London generally described on MN as a “stabby shithole”, paying a tiny mortgage as a result, and therefore was able to save most of my salary, whilst many friends chose to stretch themselves financially to rent or buy in naice areas but we’re unable to save. I chose not to have children, therefore saving on the exorbitant expense of providing for them. Both of these things are achievable and don’t require one to come from a privileged background or have any family financial support.

Most of the friends I know who are landlords are couples who got together older when both already owned their own homes and just began letting out one or both homes when they moved in together into somewhere new. It doesn’t necessarily require any kind of a leg up, just average finances.

No way you could regulate this without opening up a legal can of worms that would topple the whole system
I disagree - other countries (even the USA, home of the free market) manage it.
I mean I know we are great at fucking things up at times, but that isn't and excuse to do nothing.

@the80sweregreat

I'm sure that any buy to let landlord / lady would say they pay a huge amount of tax and it's not all profit etc. of course, people appreciate this, but in order to start their portfolio took money to start with or a leg up from somewhere. They will probably be very quiet about how that happened for them. Not everyone has the same chances in life to build an empire sadly.

Well, no. I have a single property that I let. I got not help from anyone, I worked up from a very poor family, went to a failing school, but worked hard, got an education, worked my way up to a decent job and saved so that I could pay the mortgage off early. An abusive relationship led me to move to a different country. I have kept my property as one day I would like to return there, or give my children the chance to return to the country of my birth. I earn the equivalent of £16k in my new country and receive at most £400 per month from the property, despite it being mortgage free.

I haven't had a hand up.

But if you resent people for having hand ups, do you oppose inheritance too? If you are left anything in a will, will you refuse to take it because its not fair on others (like me) who will inherit nothing? Will you say its fairer if it goes to the state instead to be redistributed to those in need?

Inheritance is one of the biggest continuers of inequality in society. Yet most, including the landlord haters on here, will happily benefit from it or pass it on to their children.

I'm not knocking land lords or ladies : I know a few people who are going into this and admit they can do it because of a big inheritance etc etc
It's just sad that it is causing a bigger divide.
I wished I had some answers , but I don't :(

I can tolerate BTL (plenty of people don't want or can't get a mortgage to buy a property) BUT ...

i) there should be legally binding rent controls
ii) sensible security of tenure
iii) a council helpline for tenants suffering from damp, vermin, faulty electrics or plumbing, inadequate heating or physically insecure housing.
iv) an absolute requirements for landlords to fix those faults within 60 days.

I really can't understand how some people are so surprised renting from a private landlord is more expensive than a mortgage. Landlords have mortgage costs PLUS all the other expenses I outlined above.

I’m not surprised but it doesn’t make it acceptable. Of course homeowners have costs too, but it’s not bundled into their mortgage payments. But rents on identical properties shouldn’t be 50% more expensive. I sure as hell don’t spend an additional 50% of my mortgage payment on upkeep.

"I keep hearing about vast numbers of properties in London being purchased by investors from China and Russia. I don’t think this should be allowed because it will be pushing up prices even more. "

+++++

One could equally write:

I keep hearing about vast numbers of properties in Wales and Cornwall being purchased by investors from England . I don’t think this should be allowed because it will be pushing up prices even more.

We don't make any money from our BTL but we will keep it because of mass house price inflation and our DD won't have a chance in hell of getting on the property ladder. So we will gift her the house when the time comes.

Homes are a basic necessity like food and water. Imagine that bread is the only available food. People who BTL are effectively spending more money than hungry people can afford, to buy more bread than they need and selling it to the hungry people a slice at a time at such a high price that the people who need the bread will never be able to buy their own bread.

If someone can up with a justification for this I'll be amazed.

Lots of reasons why house prices are unaffordable in certain areas. In some areas they are affordable but there are not necessarily the jobs to help people get mortgages in those areas.

Looser lending restrictions and a prolonged period of incredibly low interest rates. This means house prices have rocketed as a proportion of salaries. Foreign and wealthy buyers buying up multiple properties is part of the problem here and I do not know how this can be sorted. In Cornwall where I live they are looking into stopping people buying second homes but I do not know how they intend to do that.

No social housing as they sold it off under RTB and some long standing council tenants made a packet but those who cannot get a mortgage are having to rent privately instead of getting a council house as they would have 30 or 40 years ago.

The NIMBYism of people not wanting new houses built near them in spite of more housing stock being part of the solution.

The owners of empty houses or developers sitting on land not being penalised.

The move away from jobs for life to sometimes erratic income or zero hour contracts making it difficult for some to get mortgages. Also the blatant advantages some have for buying properties with gifted deposits from Mum and Dad or inheritances or whatever. I say that as someone who helped our daughters buy their properties as my philosophy is if you cannot beat them join them.

This current housing boom isn't caused by lack of housing. It's cause by free flowing money in the form of credit and quantitative easing.

It doesn't matter what is stimulating demand. If you want prices to stabilize or go down, you need to increase supply.

How Does Supply and Demand Affect the Housing Market?

YANBU
I think there’s something really immoral in having a “property portfolio”.

It’s definitely contributing to the housing crisis we are currently in.

@BrightYellowDaffodil

I really can't understand how some people are so surprised renting from a private landlord is more expensive than a mortgage. Landlords have mortgage costs PLUS all the other expenses I outlined above.

I’m not surprised but it doesn’t make it acceptable. Of course homeowners have costs too, but it’s not bundled into their mortgage payments. But rents on identical properties shouldn’t be 50% more expensive. I sure as hell don’t spend an additional 50% of my mortgage payment on upkeep.

But repair and maintenance are only ONE part of the additional costs that landlords have! You clearly have no idea what the costs are. Plus, in terms of repairs tenants, quite rightly as they are paying for the service, put everything that needs fixed to their landlord to organise and pay for, whereas if you were an owner occupier you would do some of it/ a lot of it yourself to save money.

@mibbelucieachwell

Homes are a basic necessity like food and water. Imagine that bread is the only available food. People who BTL are effectively spending more money than hungry people can afford, to buy more bread than they need and selling it to the hungry people a slice at a time at such a high price that the people who need the bread will never be able to buy their own bread.

If someone can up with a justification for this I'll be amazed.

But that’s exactly what happens with food. Companies are allowed to make it and sell it at profit to retailers who can then decide to sell it at a profit they determine, even whilst some people can afford no food.

@MissConductUS

This current housing boom isn't caused by lack of housing. It's cause by free flowing money in the form of credit and quantitative easing.

It doesn't matter what is stimulating demand. If you want prices to stabilize or go down, you need to increase supply.

How Does Supply and Demand Affect the Housing Market?

The lack of returns on other investments available to more ordinary people isn't helping either.

I know a couple of people with poor pension provision who have done BTL to make an investment. If it wasn't so attractive (and in particular if private Pensions had better returns, that would cut its popularity.

I neither took money or was given it. We worked our tits off renovating a shit hole in east London, remortgaged and used the uplift for a deposit on another one.... and kept going.

Well, some people resent landlords of BTL, but don't resent people who have big money and can easily use the money to earn even more money. Maybe it's because the really rich people is out of their reach, so they accept them to be rich, but the ordinary landlords are just normal people like them?

Some people often assume BTL can earn big money, the truth is it normally only offers about 5-7% return for the money you invest. If you take off the BTL mortgage cost, the tax, agency cost, the house maintenance, there are not that much left. For someone is good in stock market, they get much big returns. For those big company directors, they have millions as bonus just at each end of the years.

Maybe we should ask for the director's salary include bonus and retirement funds together to be capped at 10 times of the average salary?

But that’s exactly what happens with food. Companies are allowed to make it and sell it at profit to retailers who can then decide to sell it at a profit they determine, even whilst some people can afford no food

There's (currently) a surplus of food available in the UK so competition drives the prices down, this is not the case with housing.

@Journeyofthedragons

But that’s exactly what happens with food. Companies are allowed to make it and sell it at profit to retailers who can then decide to sell it at a profit they determine, even whilst some people can afford no food

There's (currently) a surplus of food available in the UK so competition drives the prices down, this is not the case with housing.

Which is how markets work and why we need to build more housing, in the areas where people want to live.

@rossclare

I neither took money or was given it. We worked our tits off renovating a shit hole in east London, remortgaged and used the uplift for a deposit on another one.... and kept going.

So when will you stop?

One or two BTL is understandable. It might be from inheritance or for the kids but 5, 10, 50, 100? That's what's sickening.

@Blossomtoes in my opinion council housing should be means tested and this should be checked every two years or so. Those tenants who no longer require cheap housing should move out providing homes for those who need it.
Security of tenure? Sure for a set period of time but I definitely, why? No one else has that be they private renters, living in a mortgaged property or home owners - their circumstances change, they have to move! When Council houses were first established they were meant as a temporary stop gap,a leg up, so to speak. Not a house or flat that passes down through generations!
That's one of the reasons we such huge waiting lists for council housing and private landlords can charge more. Without the private landlords there'd be even less available housing. One could even argue that if there is a surplus of privately let properties available this will drive rents down.

Which is how markets work and why we need to build more housing, in the areas where people want to live

Absolutely, but whilst many of the individuals who make up the government benefit from this situation privately (as BTL landlords) there's not much of an appetite for change.