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Original poster

Scotland to trial 4-day working week

378 replies

MyBadHabitsLeadToYou · 03/09/2021 19:02

With no consequential pay reduction.

I couldn’t find a thread on this. Apologies if I have missed one.

I’m not sure what to make of this. I already work a four-day week (so that my four year old isn’t in full time nursery) and it’s a nice balance. But sometimes a bit stressful because my workload is heavy so it’s one less day in which to get things done. However, soooo many people are so overworked and stressed and it would be good for mental health etc.

But I’m not entirely clear on how this will work in practice e.g small private businesses. Twitter views are very mixed. How will it benefit retail staff etc, will it only benefit the office workers…

Just wondering what the consensus is.

OP posts:
HedgeVeg · 03/09/2021 21:49

I'm sorry if I'm being thick but how would this work in roles that require certain hours? eg. Retail/Hospitality.

I run a cafe, it needs two staff on the floor from 10am-5pm, 7 days a week in order to serve customers.
That's 3 staff - 2 working FT at 5 days a week, and 1 working PT 4 days a week.
Each member of staff earns £10 an hour.

It seems like the proposal is for them to work only 4 days, yet get paid for 5? Ie. Me as an employer paying them more?
That's not affordable for the business, so it'll shut - leaving 3 people unemployed?

How can you condense this kind of work into fewer hours for the same pay?

SofiaMichelle · 03/09/2021 21:49

@Pumperthepumper

You're at it again with your "not claiming to be an expert but..."

Why on earth would I need to "Google" Barnett? I know perfectly well how it works.

I'd suggest you need to do some reading and Googling yourself, as you've instructed others to do, since you understand neither the devolved funding/spending model or indeed maths.

Pumperthepumper · 03/09/2021 21:49

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

Why should I be specific? The majority of private companies are working to tight margins and couldn’t afford to implement these policies. That’s how they work. It’s in the companies act that Directors have to squeeze the maximum profit out of the business for the shareholders.
Are you still confused at the idea that it wouldn’t work for everyone in every sector? Still, really?
KintsugiCat · 03/09/2021 21:50

@Munkustrap

Hard to see how that would work for e.g. education.

There'll also be some cracking company politics when firms are deciding who gets Mondays and Fridays off and so gets a three day weekend and who gets their extra day midweek.

Lot of places already have a 4.5 day school week. Basically it means Friday afternoons off. Means that all teachers get their non-contact time at once.
SofiaMichelle · 03/09/2021 21:50

How can you condense this kind of work into fewer hours for the same pay?

You can't, @HedgeVeg

And it's ludicrous to think otherwise, yet here we are...

Whycangirlsbesonasty · 03/09/2021 21:50

HedgeVeg - it doesn’t work. The only way it works is if you have people drawing out a job that can be done in 4 days into 5 (I.e. slacking off).

Pumperthepumper · 03/09/2021 21:51

[quote SofiaMichelle]@Pumperthepumper

You're at it again with your "not claiming to be an expert but..."

Why on earth would I need to "Google" Barnett? I know perfectly well how it works.

I'd suggest you need to do some reading and Googling yourself, as you've instructed others to do, since you understand neither the devolved funding/spending model or indeed maths.[/quote]
It’s not my fault you’ve made a fool of yourself. How’s your campaign for English independence going, since Scotland are such a drain?

HedgeVeg · 03/09/2021 21:51

@HedgeVeg

I'm sorry if I'm being thick but how would this work in roles that require certain hours? eg. Retail/Hospitality.

I run a cafe, it needs two staff on the floor from 10am-5pm, 7 days a week in order to serve customers.
That's 3 staff - 2 working FT at 5 days a week, and 1 working PT 4 days a week.
Each member of staff earns £10 an hour.

It seems like the proposal is for them to work only 4 days, yet get paid for 5? Ie. Me as an employer paying them more?
That's not affordable for the business, so it'll shut - leaving 3 people unemployed?

How can you condense this kind of work into fewer hours for the same pay?

Sorry, I should have added that in order for the employees to get 5 day pay on 4 day hours, I'd need to pay them an extra 20% salary and employ another worker to cover the 5th day...
Pumperthepumper · 03/09/2021 21:51

@HedgeVeg

I'm sorry if I'm being thick but how would this work in roles that require certain hours? eg. Retail/Hospitality.

I run a cafe, it needs two staff on the floor from 10am-5pm, 7 days a week in order to serve customers.
That's 3 staff - 2 working FT at 5 days a week, and 1 working PT 4 days a week.
Each member of staff earns £10 an hour.

It seems like the proposal is for them to work only 4 days, yet get paid for 5? Ie. Me as an employer paying them more?
That's not affordable for the business, so it'll shut - leaving 3 people unemployed?

How can you condense this kind of work into fewer hours for the same pay?

Again; it wouldn’t work for everyone in every sector.
Whycangirlsbesonasty · 03/09/2021 21:52

The only people it would work for it the public sector, and that’s because the taxpayer are paying for it, propped up by the Barnett formula.

RaininSummer · 03/09/2021 21:52

Haven't read whole thread so sorry if a repeated question but if people will not lose wages by going down to 4 days, does that mean those who already work 4 days will get a pay rise?

Pumperthepumper · 03/09/2021 21:52

@HedgeVeg

I'm sorry if I'm being thick but how would this work in roles that require certain hours? eg. Retail/Hospitality.

I run a cafe, it needs two staff on the floor from 10am-5pm, 7 days a week in order to serve customers.
That's 3 staff - 2 working FT at 5 days a week, and 1 working PT 4 days a week.
Each member of staff earns £10 an hour.

It seems like the proposal is for them to work only 4 days, yet get paid for 5? Ie. Me as an employer paying them more?
That's not affordable for the business, so it'll shut - leaving 3 people unemployed?

How can you condense this kind of work into fewer hours for the same pay?

Or: weighing up costs on staffing vs income for a day, which I assume you did when deciding to open five days per week instead of four.
KintsugiCat · 03/09/2021 21:52

Productivity in France is the same in the UK for fewer hours worked. People work more effectively, prioritise better etc when they work fewer hours. Culture of presenteeism and make-work in the UK is pretty laughable.

With proper performance measures and standards this could easily work I think.

Whycangirlsbesonasty · 03/09/2021 21:53

Yes RaininSummer. A 25% pay rise.

Pumperthepumper · 03/09/2021 21:54

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

The only people it would work for it the public sector, and that’s because the taxpayer are paying for it, propped up by the Barnett formula.
It’s just incredible me that you’re so happy to look this ignorant @Whycangirlsbesonasty - it’s almost like you can’t pick an angle. Schools? Bin men? Dave slacking off? Private sector? Public sector? Oh, someone else mentioned Barnett formula! That then!
Pumperthepumper · 03/09/2021 21:54

@RaininSummer

Haven't read whole thread so sorry if a repeated question but if people will not lose wages by going down to 4 days, does that mean those who already work 4 days will get a pay rise?
No, their hours would be adjusted 20% where appropriate.
Pumperthepumper · 03/09/2021 21:55

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

Yes RaininSummer. A 25% pay rise.
Oh god, more ignorance!
ChaneySays · 03/09/2021 21:55

Productivity in France is the same in the UK for fewer hours worked. People work more effectively, prioritise better etc when they work fewer hours. Culture of presenteeism and make-work in the UK is pretty laughable.

With proper performance measures and standards this could easily work I think.

I don't understand how this works in catering etc? Presumably it must if they're already doing it.

Whycangirlsbesonasty · 03/09/2021 21:56

No pumper, their hours wouldn’t be adjusted. The Scottish government is suggesting they are paid what they are currently paid for 5 days for 4 days! Jeez!!!

Nooproblemoo · 03/09/2021 21:56

I read it as a reduction in hours but not pay.

It'll work for some sectors but not all and I don't see that as a reason not to trial it.

Pumperthepumper · 03/09/2021 21:57

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

No pumper, their hours wouldn’t be adjusted. The Scottish government is suggesting they are paid what they are currently paid for 5 days for 4 days! Jeez!!!
I mean, a post ago you thought 1/5 was 25%
Whycangirlsbesonasty · 03/09/2021 21:57

They hours are dropped 20% so a pro rata 25% pay rise

HedgeVeg · 03/09/2021 21:58

@Pumperthepumper

Or: weighing up costs on staffing vs income for a day, which I assume you did when deciding to open five days per week instead of four.

We're open 7 days a week - it's a cafe. Not many cafes have the option of a 4 day week, sort of defeats the service.

Mistressiggi · 03/09/2021 21:59

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

Do you know how they get the educational hours into a 4.5 day week? They have shortened break times. There is barely any time for lunchtime play, which is so sad. But yeh, childcare. Whatever!
The main way is through an earlier start, around 30 mins earlier than regions that have a full day on a Friday. Shorter lunches in secondary are usually to do with behaviour. So it's more of a compressed week than a shorter week.
Pumperthepumper · 03/09/2021 21:59

[quote HedgeVeg]@Pumperthepumper

Or: weighing up costs on staffing vs income for a day, which I assume you did when deciding to open five days per week instead of four.

We're open 7 days a week - it's a cafe. Not many cafes have the option of a 4 day week, sort of defeats the service.[/quote]
Regardless though, there must have been a point where you weighed up costs vs income? Or staffing vs profit?