AIBU to think this is a bit ridiculous (NHS 111)

[UsernameNotAvailableApparently]

I very rarely feel unwell enough that I go to hospital or call 111 for anything; I generally try and wait until I can see my GP. However, last night I had a headache that was blinding, wasn’t getting better with painkillers and also was struggling to catch my breath. I had my second vaccine about 10 days ago and they’d said to me if I have a headache that doesn’t improve with painkillers to call 111.

So at 9pm I tried calling but after a fairly long wait the message informed me to fill in my symptoms online which I did. At 9.30pm they advised a nurse would call me back within two hours so I decided to wait up despite feeling exhausted by the headache pain and just wanting sleep.

Half 11 came and went with no call, so I decided to put my phone on loud and try to sleep off the headache.

I woke up just as my phone was ringing off so missed the call. I checked the time and it was 3.30am!! Six hours after I had submitted the form and surely a ridiculous hour to call someone about anything. If it had gotten worse I would’ve been in hospital by that point.

I waited for half hour as they say that they’ll try calling 3 times and eventually went back to sleep at 4am with no call. This time I put my phone back on silent as I wanted to catch up on sleep and figured they weren’t calling back.

Except they did call back at 5am and 5.05am before leaving a voicemail saying they’d tried to call me 3 times to no avail and to call back if needed.

I love and appreciate the NHS system beyond belief, and I know these are tough times, but surely trying to get hold of someone at 3.30am when they needed help at 9pm is madness?

Headache is still bad so will see my GP today, but I do feel a little bit let down by the 111 system.

AIBU?

@TheHouseILiveIn I am more than happy to be told I’m BU for numerous reasons, but definitely not to be told I’m a Tory tyvm. I’d rather boil my own head

I don't think 111 has enough man power. I rang as DD1 had erratic breathing, very rapid and then long pauses at 2am saturday morning. Rang 111, oh we'll send an ambulance, ambulance cancelled, rang back asked for OOH doctor, oh we'll get someone to ring you back. 5am gave up and went to A&E, they gave me cream for her conjunctivitis that I knew she had, but only symptomatic 5pm friday, and said breathing was as she had a temp. I didn't like the breathing, but wanted a GP not A&E. Tuesday doctor diagnosed her with croup.

Another weekend, she had temp of 39degrees, wouldnt stop screaming, had a rash but it blanched, and was hard to rouse her, again wanted GP appointment for re-assurance, 6 hours later I gave up and again went to A&E. I swear once I walked through the doors she perked up, nurse said it was really common, but 111 rang me while i was in A&E 8 hours later to say they could arrange a drs appointment. With a small child I don't think those time scales are acceptable, but I don't know how many are medically trained

I used 111 last week for my dd. Couldn’t fault them- they rang every couple of hours to check up on her and sent a doctor round- admittedly very early in the morning and needed to wake her up but better than waiting in A and E for something that wasn’t life threatening. If it was life threatening I’d have gone to a and e myself.
If you were that concerned you wouldn’t have gone to bed and would have taken a taxi (can’t drive with a migraine) to hospital.

111 almost killed me by refusing to refer me to an emergency clinic when I had an abscess so don't rate the service

@georgarina

111 almost killed me by refusing to refer me to an emergency clinic when I had an abscess so don't rate the service

But wouldn't you call 999 for am emergency? 111 is for less urgent matters

I've never been able to fault the 111 system, they've always got to the point and been efficient. I think your worry that others worse are left waiting is unfounded. They contact you based on the symptoms you told them you have, so if someone's worse they'll get called sooner. They clearly didn't think your headache was as much of an emergency as the probably hundreds of calls about chest pains in that time.

I don't know about 111 (Fwiw, I think they just work 24hrs, so it's not unusual for them to call at weird times) - but I think you probably need to be prepared for your GP to send you to A and E when you see them later.

I had a headache 4 days after my second AZ last month, that was nowhere near as bad as yours sounds but got worse when lying down and didn't respond to painkillers. I phoned the GP at around 4pm on the second day, (just as that was what the nurse who gave the jab told me to do), and she called back, asked a few questions, and then told me to go to A and E as soon as I could . So I rocked up there at about 7pm on a Thursday night, feeling a right fraud with my really mild headache!

They ended up admitting me overnight, doing blood tests to check for clotting stuff, and, as that was ok, waiting until the morning to do a CT scan rather than an urgent overnight one. It was all a bit of a shock (no clean clothes, toothbrush etc...) , and as it turned out I was absolutely fine Just with an inconveniently timed and weird (for me) headache... But the NHS has a protocol for that kind of symptom associated with the Covid vaccine, and once I was on it, I wasn't allowed to leave!

Good luck, and hope you feel better soon!

…the whole point of calling 111 out of hours is to get seen at weird times. Your alternative would have been going to sit in A&E, which would take just as long. If you need urgent medical care you need it at 3am not the next day! 111 have made middle of the night appointments for me before, it’s kind of…the whole point? You completely wasted their time by putting your phone on silent, I have no idea why you would do that unless you were being purposely obtuse?

irritating - but if it had been really bad you wouldn't have been asleep?

Yabu for putting your phone on silent when you knew they'd call.

How are you feeling this morning?

High temp in a child can cause fast erratic breathing, likely the start of croup though which I’d always get checked out. I’ve seen some very very poorly kids with croup. I think anything you are really worried about you need to go and get seen, waiting for a call is pointless if you’re concerned. Especially with babies/toddlers & children really.

Hope your head is better soon op, I can imagine you’re feeling pretty crap and trying to stay awake for the call was difficult if you’d managed to doze, hope the gp sorts you out today.

They called you back as soon as possible. When did you want them to ring?
Either before 11.30pm or wait til 7am?
Don't you think the service would have some issues if they paused callbacks during the night and then rang everyone in the morning

If you called at 9.30pm, then presumably it was because you had an urgent problem that couldn't wait. If you were happy to go to sleep and worry about it in the morning then you could have just waited and called your GP.

I fell down the stairs and my ankle looked like it was broken.

They took 8.5 hours to call me back.

Out of hours service calls you out of hours!! Shocking

The staffing they're trying to maintain a service with is what's ridiculous. Don't love and appreciate the NHS as it is. It's not good enough. Force the government to do better.

extremely unreasonable. What a bloody waste of their time

@PandorasMailbox

I fell down the stairs and my ankle looked like it was broken.

They took 8.5 hours to call me back.

Is this a 111 situation? Surely if you think you have a broken limb you need a physical examination. Why did you not present at your nearest A&e?

@Crowtooyo that's eventually what I had to do when my throat literally started closing. But the days leading up to it I didn't need an ambulance, all I knew was something was wrong after a dental procedure and A&E wouldn't see me and the dentist was closed due to lockdown, I called 15+ times trying to be referred as that was supposedly the next step and it was getting worse but they said it didn't sound like there was a problem and "if I called again they would say the same thing".

@TheHouseILiveIn

Assuming this is the AZ vaccine, you should be going straight to A+E for a scan, not posting on MN berating the NHS. The headache can't be that bad that you can write all this.

^This

I get so frustrated with the NHS for their lack of reasonable front door... A&E for life threatening emergencies, GPs for routine problems, and then what are you left with for "suddenly need help but it's not an emergency?". The answer is 111. I think it's ridiculous that they called you in the middle of the night rather than having a system for calling you back in the morning. It's so ingrained in us to be grateful for the NHS and to take whatever you can get that "reasonable" has flown out of the window.

111 isn't an "out of hours" service. Sure it operates 24/7 but "out of hours" refers to something completely different. 111 also operates "in hours".

If you called at 9.30pm, then presumably it was because you had an urgent problem that couldn't wait. And this is exactly what I'm talking about. Why are the options either "can't wait" or "can wait a week or two for a GP appointment". What service are you supposed to call if you need medical assistance "sooner rather than later"?

Don't you think the service would have some issues if they paused callbacks during the night and then rang everyone in the morning. Doing fewer callbacks over night would mean fewer staff needed overnight therefore more available during the day. Makes sense that they have a flag for people that don't want a callback in the middle of the night and would prefer to wait until morning.

Is this a 111 situation? Surely if you think you have a broken limb you need a physical examination. Why did you not present at your nearest A&e?

Because I couldn't walk and live alone, so had nobody to take me. It was also during lockdown and I had to self-isolate because of my cancer.

I work for ambulance service and delays can be that long fairly typically for 111 and 999. Regularly we'll attend 999 calls 12+hours following the initial call! It's not right but demand is very much out stripping supply.

I think the unusual thing here was that they put you down for a callback, for a persistent severe headache that is not typical for the patient I would have thought it would be indicated to be seen in A&E for assessment/head ct. Its ultimately what I would advise if I'd seen you at 2130 at night even if all your observations were normal. Certainly so if the alternative was sending you to bed on your own to sleep and be completely unaware of you worsened.

@ReeseWitherfork

If you called at 9.30pm, then presumably it was because you had an urgent problem that couldn't wait. And this is exactly what I'm talking about. Why are the options either "can't wait" or "can wait a week or two for a GP appointment". What service are you supposed to call if you need medical assistance "sooner rather than later"?

Don't you think the service would have some issues if they paused callbacks during the night and then rang everyone in the morning. Doing fewer callbacks over night would mean fewer staff needed overnight therefore more available during the day. Makes sense that they have a flag for people that don't want a callback in the middle of the night and would prefer to wait until morning.

If it's an emergency then 999/go to A&E

If it's 9.30pm and it's urgent and I need advice before the GP opens then 111.

If I had a problem that could wait til the morning I'd call my GP at 8.30am.

I used to work for 111 back in the day and agree with the above. If it can wait till the morning then its usually referred back to gps. People would be annoyed if they had a head ache and we decided not to call them back when we could incase they were sleeping as people often were waiting on our calls.

Peoples expectation of 111 is often odd. Ie the person above looking for help with a broken bone. The reason they direct to A+e so often is because there's limited ability over the phone to tell you your heartburn isn't a heart attack, your sudden blurred vision isn't a stroke, your bad leg isn't broken etc. Often that also can't be done via a call handler, a doctor over the phone or even an out of hour doctor. Any hint its something sinister and they have to choose a+e and in most areas a +e is the only place with xrays, and the right monitoring equipment to make those clinical decisions.