AIBU to think this is a form of financial abuse?

[tigerbear]

I’ll try to keep the background brief:
When exDH and I split up, we were fortunate enough to own two properties. We agreed that he’d stay in the house we were then living in and keep that, and I’d get the proceeds from a flat we owned, in order to buy somewhere else.
All worked out fine.
When we split up, it was agreed that I’d pay to have myself removed from the deeds of the house, which was supposed to be a very straight forward process, paying £500 or so to a solicitor to facilitate the process.
Stupidly though, as everything was quite overwhelming at the time of the split, I just didn’t get round to doing it, it was just one of those things that would get done in time.

Fast forward 8-9 yesrs, and I tried to get removed from it year before last. Due to exDH being slow with the paperwork needed, I didn’t go full steam ahead with it until last year.

The paperwork from the solicitor specifies that the mortgage company needs to give their permission for me to be removed.
The lender is refusing to allow me to be removed from the deeds because my ex has made a change to the terms of the mortgage as he now lets out the house.
I didn’t even know I was on the mortgage (considering that I haven’t lived in the house for over 8 years). ExDH says that when he renewed the mortgage a few years ago, it just ‘somehow automatically renewed online or something’ 🤔
So I’m on a mortgage I didn’t sign up for, and have no financial contribution to, yet the mortgage company steadfastly refuse me to be taken off it (they say because they have my signature on the original mortgage taken out over 10 years ago, I still need to remain on it.
They say that I can’t be removed from it until EXDH no longer has tenants, and reverts it back to a non letting mortgage (which he’s not really willing to do as it means he loses rent. He’s saying I have to cover any loss in rent he might incur (which would be a couple of thousand).

AIBU to think the mortgage company is wrong to only consider the actions and wishes of 1 party on the mortgage , ie EXDH’s? It leaves me totally open to financial abuse.
I don’t understand why they won’t just allow me to be removed from it, when I don’t contribute financially towards paying the mortgage - surely there is no risk there??
I last had contact with the lender last July, where I said I’d contact the financial Ombudsman, and they pretty much said ‘fine, you’re welcome to’
At that point I was pretty worn down by it, but now I’m ready to fight again !
Does anyone have any experience in these matters or any advice please?

@Singlebutmarried

If ex-DH ‘renewed’ the mortgage with the original lender he wouldn’t need any further evidence.

A product transfer with the same lender only needs one of you to click the product and agree to the terms.

As I stated in a PP it’s the only option for a lot of divorcees how can’t (or claim not to be able to) find their ex partner.

If a mortgage company was not to allow a product transfer in this situation they could be held to account as they are effectively keeping the mortgagor a ‘prisoner’. Which under new (ish) FCA legislation they are not allowed to do.

Not necessarily true. When I switched our mortgage product 4 years ago they needed to speak separately to my DH to spake sure that he agreed to the terms. It's worth pursuing with the bank how he managed change terms of the mortgage without your consent.

You clearly have no idea how a mortgage and remortgage works which isn’t the lender’s fault.

If you come to the end of the fixed rate, then you can move onto another without any additional work. It is assumed your situation hasn’t changed.

No your ex shouldn’t have certified that nothing had changed.

But a lender isn’t going to remove you from a huge loan secured against a property without your signature. Your ex would have essentially needed to take out a new mortgage to prove himself able to afford the payments alone. A solicitor would need to be involved to complete what’s known as a transfer of equity. I don’t know who told you that you can’t be removed because of the type of mortgage - but while this might be true for this current lender, he could remortgage to another one to get you out. This would cost an early repayment charge but it can still be done if the current lender won’t budge (which doesn’t sound right to me anyway tbh).

Your ignorance and his laziness is no one’s fault but yours and his.

@TartanCurtains this is something I’m terrified about too, stamp duty and other costs.
Years ago, I had no idea of the implications of me still being on the deeds, I really thought it was as simple as filling in the transfer of equity form, paying the £500 or so and the solicitor fees, and that would be it.

Stupid me for not just doing it sooner!!

@Aprilx I understand now, thank you.

Ex is on holiday, but will ask him about when the current mortgage runs out once he’s back. Thinking about it again, perhaps it is this year, so will get on it.

You need to speak with a solicitor. In contract law you can not agree to a change without an act on your part such as a signature or continuing to pay for a rolling contract. As you have done neither and have contacted them as soon as you were made aware, there maybe something that can be done. A solicitor would be best placed to advise you of this.

Sorry but I think you were negligent/naive with your affairs at the time of the divorce and this is the resulting mess. Stop looking to blame others and just get it sorted with a good solicitor.

But if the ex has been unable to get OP to complete the ToE paperwork then yes they will let him solely do it, as well as the CTL as they can’t force him into a position where he can’t afford the mortgage.

Having dealt with more divorcing clients and ToEs in the last year than ever I’m pretty confident in what I’ve posted.

It’s not financial abuse

As well as a stamp duty land tax charge for your husband (at higher rates), you will also need to pay capital gains tax when you transfer your share of the property to him if it has gone up in value since you bought it / moved out, so make sure you budget for that.

He couldn’t have taken you off the mortgage if he’s wanted to while you were still on the deeds, and it wouldn’t have been fair (and by your rationale potentially abusive) to make him pay higher interest rates because you weren’t organised enough to sort the transfer of equity at the time of the divorce - so neither he nor the bank have done anything wrong in terms of renewing the mortgage.

These things are so much more complicated when not dealt with at the time of the divorce!

Hi OP,
Are you actually legally divorced? Did you get a financial settlement and an order that finances are separated?

You cannot simply “take your name off” a mortgage. Your ex has to prove to his lender that he can solely afford the property and they have to agree it or he can take an entirely new mortgage and pay off the old one. I’d say by far the bulk of this job (getting you off the mortgage) is for your ex (proof of earnings/credit check/application etc) not you so basically you have both let it be instead of doing anything. If he doesn’t earn enough to take it over the answer will be no.

If your ex doesn’t intend to move back in and needs a buy to let mortgage you normally need to be as a minimum: a home owner (another home), earn at least 20k, and have at least 25% equity in the property. Rules might have tightened since these as it has been a while since I looked. His credit record will also need to be good.

Your ex is talking of charging you for loss of rent but actually you are in a strong position. Assuming you own half of this house a solicitor will only release the funds of it’s sale 50:50 to each of you unless you both agree otherwise. It is half yours (unless your previous “agreement” was a legally binding court order?). Your “agreement” was based on your joint worth 9 years ago so I’m guessing the house (that you still own half of) is worth more now. If your ex wants you to walk away without buying you out/paying you half the increase in value since you agreed your financial split 9 years ago he needs to start co-operating.

You need legal advice ASAP. It does sound like your ex has screwed you over.

I wouldn’t say it’s financial abuse though. Not the way it was explained to me by women’s aid when I was supported by them.

I’d ask the bank for the Ts & Cs of the current mortgage. You’re still on it and therefore have a right to see everything! There’s no need for your XH to do this.

It seems strange that at no point when switching to a new rate your XH didn’t have to tick a box to say nothing about your situation had changed…

Yes to capital gains tax. It’s paid on the increase in value of the property between when you bought the property and when you sold/disposed of it (even if you give it away) - but only for the time it’s not your main home.

E.g. if you jointly bought for 100k and sell 10 years later for 200k the gain is 100k. But if for instance you lived in it for 2 years and rented it for 8 years the gain is 80% taxable (no tax for the 2 years it was your home) so 80k. You only own half the property so your half of the gain is 40k. You have an annual capital gains tax allowance (£12,300) so deduct that and that roughly is your taxible gain (there may be other allowances that reduce the gain further)

The capital gains tax rate is 18 or 28% depending on your income.

That’s all very rough but have a look at this online gov calculator www.gov.uk/tax-sell-property/work-out-your-gain

If you do have capital gains tax to pay then you might want to make sure you at least get enough to pay it from the sale/ex buying you out. After all if he sold it at the time you split then none would be payable.

The bank will be able to give you all the information you need about the mortgage as you are still party to it. Get on to them that way you know exactly is happening from their end.

You then need to go back to your divorce papers and see exactly what is listed to happen with the house. If you haven't got the financial closure then you can relook at this with regard the house. If you were to for example say if the house is half mine then so is the rent - actually there is a tax implication there if the house is still in your name anyway so you need to get that sorted!

…how is that financial abuse?? You left dealing with the finances for close to a decade, and are now getting very upset that it can’t be done immediately because it’s hugely complex and difficult thing to do. You can’t demand he take a huge financial hit to do it instantly when you haven’t cared for so long.

There is something about Capital Gains tax not being payable if the sale of the property is officially due to divorce proceedings. But it's fairly ambiguously written in HMRC policy, and between three conveyancing solicitors that I spoke to, none of them were certain of the rules when I asked them.

You also have to be able to prove that to be the case, through divorce documents.

Your ex has committed mortgage fraud. No way can you have been transferred to another deal in both names with only one signature online.

@WayneBruce

Your ex has committed mortgage fraud. No way can you have been transferred to another deal in both names with only one signature online.

Yes, this! The new deal would have required you both, otherwise it would have rolled over onto the standard variable rate which is much higher than a new deal.

@tigerbear As your name is on the mortgage, you are a customer of the lender and you can raise a complaint at the first instance that your consent should have been obtained in relation to any new fixed term deal.

This may make trouble for your ex, but it is if his own making and not yours. If he wanted to make decisions on his own he could and should have taken steps to get you off the mortgage.

Your inaction doesn't excuse his actions.

This sounds a bit dodgy. You signed up to the original term of the mortgage, not the renewed mortgage. Surely they would have needed both your signatures?
I think when the mortgage is in two names, only one signature is enough for a renewal / remortgage. Same as for joint bank accounts, any party can withdraw / transfer unilaterally.
I was in a similar situation, ex had remortgaged just before petitioning for divorce in both names, and there's nothing to be done from the legal perspective.

You need to see a solicitor for advice on the next steps - and SEE IT THROUGH.

You don’t need this nonsense about being ready for a “fight” via the Ombudsman.

Put that time and energy into finally doing this properly.

He was a fool to not realise that you couldn’t have done the deeds transfer without signatures from him. But, you agreed to be responsible for that, so I think he’s doing nothing wrong not expecting to lose out now because you didn’t bother. He should absolutely work with you to resolve this - but it’s your mistake, so you shouldn’t expect him to jump to it. If he wants to wait to avoid a mortgage penalty, that’s a fair request for you to consider.

As for you “think” you have a Consent Order?

Don’t think, check.

Go and see a solicitor.

@WayneBruce

Your ex has committed mortgage fraud. No way can you have been transferred to another deal in both names with only one signature online.

No he hasn’t.

OP has failed to remove herself. The lender is obliged to let him switch to another product otherwise he will become a mortgage prisoner, and face losing the house through no fault of his own should the SVR prove too expensive to play

He’s correctly asked for consent to let to make the house self funding.

OP should have sorted this 8 years ago.

If the property is rented out to tenants & you own half of the property

You should be receiving half of the income generated by the tenants ?

Secondly,l I agree, if you are removed off the mortgage, your ex needs to buy your half or sell the property & you both sit the money

If the tenants don't pay the rent, you ex should have landlord insurance to cover this & other issues

You need a copy of the current mortgage to view yourself from the mortgage provider ( not from your ex)

You need legal advice & you should have sorted this out years ago

No way has he switched products on one signature.
This is my job.

With respect @WayneBruce, you don't work for all lenders, and not all lenders will require physical signatures. Many of them do completely online rate switches that purely require a click of a button as a signature. But who knows, OP hasn't shared the lender - maybe he just forged her signature?

Obviously the ex was supposed to get her authorisation to complete this; clearly he did not.

Either way, neither of them have troubled their arses to get the mortgage put into one name in the better part of a decade, I'm not sure I can blame him for moving to a better rate although I certainly can for not contacting OP and getting the ball rolling on the TOE!

@Ph2shF00dPie a permission to let is not a buy to let. It's considered a short term facility for those who might be moving areas and not able to sell immediately or whatever. Normally, or it is with my employer, so long as the mortgage payments are being made, they don't really care where they're coming from.

And OP is jointly liable for the mortgage which is a debt. I'm not sure she should be jointly getting half the rent payments if they're divorced.

“last had contact with the lender last July, where I said I’d contact the financial Ombudsman, and they pretty much said ‘fine, you’re welcome to’ “ Doesn’t mean they will get their way though, we say this all the time, you can’t tell someone otherwise.

Do you trust your ex….. if your name is on the mortgage I would ask for all the paperwork relating to it.