To think a tax on nappies is unfair?

[colacolaco]

It just seems like yet again, it’s the poorest families who will be penalized and suffer most from this.

And what next - a tax on sanitary pads and tampons? Because guess what, they’re not very environmentally friendly either.

We used cloth nappies and we were on a very tight budget then. Also no tumble dryer m, but the dry very quickly.

Sorry, but there is an alternative to disposable nappies, and if you choose the use them they you ought to pay for them.

It doubt it would encourage people to potty train earlier though that would be no bad thing. The average age has shot up.

And agree which earlier potty training. People can’t be bothered now because disposables are convenient, and it would save huge amounts of resources.

If you have a washing machine once the initial outlay has gone it is much much cheaper to use cloth nappies.

yanbu
this would also affect people with disabled children badly.

@PieMaster

They should just give manufacturers 3 years to create biodegradable ones and not be allowed to sell non biodegradable ones after that time. Laundry poverty is really tough. Washing machines are the highest cause of debt through HP. They break, they cost a lot to run etc. That said my Mum used cloth nappies on us Nd handwashed them and then used a wringer. Can't imagine that today, but maybe that's why we are in this mess.

Did your mum work outside the house?

Where you in any form of childcare at all?

It would mean for working parents they would need 2-3 times as many nappies as childcare providers, grandparents and other people who look after your children won't be expected to wash the soiled nappies. They would bundle them up for you to wash at the end of the day.

Read this:
www.theguardian.com/society/2021/aug/31/campaigners-urge-ministers-to-introduce-vouchers-for-reusable-nappies

The campaigners make it clear that a tax is unfair and there should be other solutions.

I used cloth nappies for 18 months 14 years ago and I think today I would have had them longer but then DD outgrew them and no toddler ones were available. Even our nursery didn't blink but I know others insist on disposables.

We used Eco by Naty if we needed convenience and they are slightly better than Pampers/Huggies but again, they do come with a price.

The problem needs to be addressed and more should be done to encourage parents without coming over as the typical middle class earth mother approach.

The same is for period products, I moved to pants and eco pads but again, they are a lot more expensive.

Disposables are so easy that there's no incentive to potty train. In the 70s, we sat them on potties when we knew a poo was expected and by the time they were 2 most were out of nappies - it took a week of concentrated effort (and having a potty in the car) - and I've got photos to prove mine were clean and dry by 2. The wet nappies went in a bucket of napisan and were then machine washed and line dried (no tumble dryers). Disposables came on the market during that time but were very expensive and my MIL used to treat me to a box (Snugglers?) and I'd take one if we were out and baby needed changing but it was a real luxury. Perhaps we'll go back to those days?

Are those that use cloth nappies working full time and do you provide the nursery/childminder with cloth nappies?

Please could someone link me to the potty training thread discussed as I find it really unbelievable that so many kids are 3+ when training starts!

What about the mums who have to work full time? How would a nursery for example deal with 30 kids in cloth nappies? Would they be doing all this extra washing or drying or have a cloakroom full of stinking shit filled cloths to give back to the parents?
It’s no good talking about the olden days either. Women largely stayed at home. This just smacks of ‘poor women shouldn’t have children’ again to me.,

DM used terries on me. I potty trained at 2.4 yrs
I used disposables on my DC who was trained at 2.5 yrs.

I use reusable san pro now, and don’t find it any bother. But I don’t think I could have managed to use the cloth nappies. I had a non sleeping Velcro baby who vomited every hour. My washing machine was on constantly as it was.

It didn’t have any difference in the potty training because it took 2 days and it was done. I used Gina Fords method, I know her name is sewage on MN, but her potty training book worked for me.

Back in the 1970s, my mum (in common with most people) used terry nappies and she didn't even have an automatic washing machine, let alone a tumble dryer.

The same ones served me and my sister, and saw out their days as cleaning rags until they eventually wore out, so very eco-friendly.

I used disposable nappies and reusable wipes with my first, then went all reusable with second. No dryer as should tumble dry them anyhow, no significant extra time involved. Got money from the council to help buy them initially, bought a fair few second hand aswell.

I tried cloth nappies for DS but trying to juggle my already shattered mental health, full time job and running the house, meant those sodding nappies nearly made me a breakdown. We were also quite skint when DS was a baby so I'd have been gutted to pay a premium on disposables.

I also agree with comments about childcare and them having to organise cloth nappies for all the babies. That sounds like a nightmare. I know a few other mums who use cloth nappies, they are all SAHM.

While I do think that costs are a good reason for those on very low incomes, there are a lot of excuses on this thread. If we want to do something about saving the planet, there will have to be some inconvenience. Convenience products is partly what's got us in to this massive mess in the first place, and somethings got to give.
Or it is only acceptable if it inconveniences other people?

Nurseries - they would find a way to change 30 cloth nappies. Just like they find a way to change 30 disposable nappies, to feed 30 kids and get them down for a nap at once. Thats what they're paid to do.

Homes - people would find a way to fit in the extra 2 washes a week, or to buy nappies which don't take forever to dry.

Or they have the choice to continue using disposables and pay the extra tax, its not compulsory.

@SquirryTheSquirrel

Back in the 1970s, my mum (in common with most people) used terry nappies and she didn't even have an automatic washing machine, let alone a tumble dryer.

The same ones served me and my sister, and saw out their days as cleaning rags until they eventually wore out, so very eco-friendly.

This ^^ When I was pregnant with ds in the 80's I bought 2 dozen Terry nappies. They were very expensive but they lasted. Also the liner went down the toilet with the worst of the mess. We didn't have a tumble dryer. It was never a problem. The nappy bucket was grim though.

However , unless they've improved, Terry nappies are not absorbent like disposables.

Manufacturers need to produce a biodegradable nappy.

A tax on poor women working full time while well off SAHM with their cleaners, large utility rooms with Miele appliances are on Mumsnet telling everyone how virtuous and eco friendly they are, that is the future.

There’s a lot of misinformation around reusable nappies as I can see from reading comments.
I worked, washed nappies 2-3 times per week, kept in a wet bag which contained any smells. Used reusable liners which caught the poo and tipped the poo down the toilet, I personally did rinse any heavily stained liners but many don’t.
No dryer as they should air dry.
Does not need to be expensive at all, with council schemes, nappy library’s, second hand nappies. Also the idea being you reuse them for your subsequent children.

I used a nanny for my work days, and she used the reusable nappies. I’m on many cloth bum Facebook groups and lots send their babies in cloth nappies to nursery, they provide them with wet bags which used nappies are but in to you be collected.

I used cloth with all 3 of mine. 2 were very late toilet trained (SN), so I had 3 in nappies at one point (albeit part time nappies for one as only overnight).

Cloth really isn’t that much harder than disposable (I used disposables on holiday), and I say that as someone who had dc with multiple allergies and intolerances (so really rank nappies!).

They can be expensive, but there is a thriving second hand market, and the plainer ones (rather than the fashionable ones) are a lot cheaper.

I had some nappies that went through my 3, plus 2 cousins, and still had some wear left in them - think of the amount of disposables not used by those 5 children.

I never tumble dried any nappies - outside on the line, or (more likely) on an airer next to a slightly open window.

My dds now use reusable sanpro. I thought dd2 would be hesitant about this (she is so very squeamish that I thought that she would want the highly sanitised use and bin approach) but she was adamant from the start (actually helped by the fact that she remembers being in nappies, and how much more comfortable cloth ones were than disposable!).

There should be all kinds of incentives to get people using cloth, rather than taxes to punish people who can’t afford the initial outlay.

But I don’t think I could have managed to use the cloth nappies. I had a non sleeping Velcro baby who vomited every hour. My washing machine was on constantly as it was.
Same. I had a full kit of second-hand cloth nappies of all types and sizes, I was all set up to do it… then DD woke hourly til 18 months, napped only in the sling, fed constantly, and pooed at every feed. My MH was broken as it was without the added burden of a dozen pooey nappies to wash. Daily.

I’m not sure a nappy tax is the solution. Pity we don’t have the technology to make nappies recyclable.

Oh, and yes, nurseries did use my cloth nappies, 15 years ago. I sent in enough to last the day, they saved them and sent them home for washing. No different from when a child is toilet training and they save the clothes from when they have an accident.

The majority of people have a washing machine and some kind of drying facilities for their own clothes and bedding. If a new parent is struggling to buy a washing machine, maybe there should be a grant to help them buy one rather than just saying, well they can use disposable nappies. Imagine the hassle of having a baby without having a washing machine or a laundrette very close by. When mine were small it felt as though the washing machine was constantly on despite using disposable nappies for much of the time!

I also agree with comments about childcare and them having to organise cloth nappies for all the babies. That sounds like a nightmare. I know a few other mums who use cloth nappies, they are all SAHM.
Its about 3 extra washes a week. I put them in with towels, flannels etc, so saves doing separate wash for those

Nursery could easily fit a toilet with hose attachment in their changing area. For a wet nappy: take off wet nappy and put in childs wet bag, put on fresh nappy. For a dirty nappy: take off dirty nappy, rinse in toilet, put in childs wet bag, put on fresh nappy. Most nursery age kids aren't doing dirty nappies at every change.

Didnt people used to be able to afford them? And im not being funny because i do understand the upfront cost is a barrier but if there was a grant or families adjusted to gifting a set rather than brand new prams it would be within reach of more people.

Kids dont need brand new clothes and toys but a surprising number of people wont consider second hand.