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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Are US States like separate countries in way?

37 replies

everythingishandy · 31/08/2021 16:06

Are individual states in the US like separate counties in a way? How much autonomy do they each get?

OP posts:
DynamoKev · 31/08/2021 16:22

Homework already?

ditalini · 31/08/2021 16:24

Google States Rights.

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 31/08/2021 16:26

Federal - lots of countries have a federal system. State law vs national law etc. Why do you ask?

everythingishandy · 31/08/2021 16:30

I was just wondering, it's not homework don't worry. I was looking up at the covid restrictions in the US where I found out that each state has different laws and regulations in place.

OP posts:
MrsRobbieHart · 31/08/2021 16:33

In my head (which is probably totally wrong! Grin ) the states are like the different countries of the UK. They are the United States made up of 50 states and we are the United Kingdom made up of NI/wales/Scotland/England.

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 31/08/2021 16:37

It's tricky to use that analogy as for eg Scottish people often feel Scotland is definitely a country rather than a state (I'm Scottish fwiw) but in a practical sense it is similar - some issues are devolved and some are national.
Each state has a senate and they also send representatives to the national houses/whatever they are called. I used to know a lot more about this.

The us government has lots of Web pages on this kind of thing. I'm sure they will have one on this.

CeeJay81 · 31/08/2021 16:38

I would say yes they are. Laws vary a lot between states and costs vary from taxes, to welfare, to wages etc. I'd say States have more autonomy than the UK countries.

MrsRobbieHart · 31/08/2021 16:41

@SuperLoudPoppingAction

It's tricky to use that analogy as for eg Scottish people often feel Scotland is definitely a country rather than a state (I'm Scottish fwiw) but in a practical sense it is similar - some issues are devolved and some are national. Each state has a senate and they also send representatives to the national houses/whatever they are called. I used to know a lot more about this.

The us government has lots of Web pages on this kind of thing. I'm sure they will have one on this.

Yes I called them the countries of the UK. I consider them all countries.
gwenneh · 31/08/2021 16:41

@MrsRobbieHart

In my head (which is probably totally wrong! Grin ) the states are like the different countries of the UK. They are the United States made up of 50 states and we are the United Kingdom made up of NI/wales/Scotland/England.
That's pretty close, though.

Federal law governs all 50 states; each state has the power to enact their own laws as long as those laws are considered "constitutional" and don't infringe on the rights set out in that document. The federal courts can hear challenges to, and overturn, state laws if they aren't considered constitutional.

Each state has a fair amount of autonomy, which is what you're seeing with covid rules. In theory this is a good plan, it means the governing of a state (with its own population, density, geography, and demographic) is highly individualised. In practice it means two states adjacent can have two entirely different sets of laws and cause confusion.

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 31/08/2021 16:42

blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2019/02/18/why-the-us-complex-federal-system-will-blunt-the-worst-aspects-of-trumps-transgressive-presidency/

This is interesting

A bunch of interesting research papers popped up on Google when I searched. Depending on how interested you are, there is plenty of food for thought.

DerAlteMann · 31/08/2021 16:47

It's over simplifying a bit, but basically, yes they are.

EKGEMS · 31/08/2021 17:09

You can travel into every state without showing ID but there are certain laws and regulations in each state but some counties or cities and towns within the states where they may or may not have different laws. Speed limits, liquor and alcohol sale laws, dog breeds,etc.Some places don't sell alcohol on Sundays or don't sell till afternoon. Some require alcohol sold in stand alone stores and others only sell beer or wine in grocery stores.I have lived in five states and three have mandatory yearly auto inspections for cars at certain age.

Jaysmith71 · 31/08/2021 17:32

Unlike other Western democracies, people in the USA have no concept of their country as a state. They have the states, which make up 'The 'states,' and there is 'One Nation,' and 'The Government' (Boo, hiss etc,) but there's very little in the way of nationwide public institutions beyond the Post Office and the military.

everythingishandy · 31/08/2021 18:50

Is it true as well that in the US that there is less international news shown by the media and is more US focused?

OP posts:
everythingishandy · 31/08/2021 18:52

In other word if the news event doesn't involve the US in some way people aren't bothered

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MadameMinimes · 31/08/2021 19:04

@SuperLoudPoppingAction

It's tricky to use that analogy as for eg Scottish people often feel Scotland is definitely a country rather than a state (I'm Scottish fwiw) but in a practical sense it is similar - some issues are devolved and some are national. Each state has a senate and they also send representatives to the national houses/whatever they are called. I used to know a lot more about this.

The us government has lots of Web pages on this kind of thing. I'm sure they will have one on this.

This is a pretty good summary but in the USA powers are not devolved. The UK is a unitary state, where sovereignty lays with central government. Our government have devolved certain aspects of government to the Scottish parliament, Welsh Assembly etc.

The USA was created by 13 separate, sovereign states deciding to cede a certain amount of sovereignty to a central government. Powers aren’t devolved to the states, they were surrendered voluntarily to the federal government with the constitution acting as a sort of “contract”.

That might sound like a matter of semantics, but it really helps to make sense of why the systems and attitudes to central government are so different.

EKGEMS · 31/08/2021 19:21

@everythingishandy They cover international stories on the national news but I'd say it's 75% US news 25% international stories unless something huge is going on like war or natural disaster-newspapers have sections devoted to international news.

Jaysmith71 · 31/08/2021 19:54

The USA is a federal republic, but so is Germany, and Germans wouldn't call another lander another country (except maybe Bavaria?)

There are states, territories with a government, and nations, people with a common sense of identity. The USA is notoriously 50 states in One Nation. The UK is four nations in one state, and one of those nations, Ireland, is one nation in two states.

PlanDeRaccordement · 31/08/2021 19:59

No, not in my experience. Admittedly only lived there a few years and travelled around to several states. There seem to be regional cultural differences (East Coast vs Southwest vs Deep South, etc), but overall there is a distinct “American” culture and everywhere you go it’s all the same chain shops, and attitudes.

Different countries usually have different languages and cultures. So the US to me is diverse certainly, but not 50 seperate countries, it is all one common country.

PlanDeRaccordement · 31/08/2021 20:02

The USA was created by 13 separate, sovereign states deciding to cede a certain amount of sovereignty to a central government.

Not really, they were 13 British colonies. They weren’t individually sovereign states because they all had only one sovereign, the King of England and only one government, British Parliament.

dreamingbohemian · 31/08/2021 20:09

In a lot of ways they are like separate countries, each state has its own taxes, election rules, school curriculum, all sorts of things. The governor of each state has a lot of power.

And culturally it sometimes feels like several countries within one country, for example the East Coast and the Bible Belt are radically different places. As an East Coaster, I feel more at home in the UK than in the Bible Belt.

Jaysmith71 · 31/08/2021 20:09

@PlanDeRaccordement

The USA was created by 13 separate, sovereign states deciding to cede a certain amount of sovereignty to a central government.

Not really, they were 13 British colonies. They weren’t individually sovereign states because they all had only one sovereign, the King of England and only one government, British Parliament.

Almost. The Govt. was not parliament but the King's ministers, at the time dysfunctionally alternating between Tories favoured by the King and without a majority in Parliament, then Whigs with a majority but disliked by the King who would dismiss them, and round and round we went.

The colonies rebelled and declared themselves independent in 1776. This was a de jure claim to Sovereignty on the basis of being a nations. This was not recognised in international law until the Treaty of Paris in 1783, which was the de facto recognition of the USA as a state.

Griefmonster · 31/08/2021 20:10

@MadameMinimes post is an excellent point. Helps to make sense of why there are so many aspects of state law that you would expect to be federal. I find it interesting that education, marriage, abortion and even voting laws are different from state to state.

dreamingbohemian · 31/08/2021 20:17

I'm trying to think of more examples

Each state has its own drivers' licences (although they all recognise each others)

Most states have their own public university system (University of Maryland, University of Virginia etc.)

Each state has its own state police force (separate from local police and from federal agencies)

Each state has its own covid laws and policies, though some things are becoming more federalised

dapsnotplimsolls · 31/08/2021 20:18

You might find this useful

www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/z2cy7p3/revision/1