To think this is so unsafe…

[MyBadHabitsLeadToYou]

Parents with toddlers on the back of the bike, cycling on busy city roads with the buses and the crazy drivers.

Howwww is this legal?! When the rules on car seats are so strict.

And don’t even start me on those flimsy trailer things that are so low down they couldn’t be seen from a large car.

Am I missing something??

Why is it ok to blame cyclists for he damage that cars do?

It isn't, unless they're genuinely at fault for an incident - in other words just like car drivers

There is, however, a live proposal that in any accident involving a car and cycle, the motorist should always be assumed to be at fault, and if that's not crazy I don't know what is

It takes guts.
It is the only quick option for cheap transport for many, I definitely couldn't do it.

'They are at exhaust height'.

Perhaps- bear with me here- the problem is the exhaust, then?

(By the way, air is more toxic for kids inside rather than outside cars www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jun/12/children-risk-air-pollution-cars-former-uk-chief-scientist-warns)

Air pollution and particulates are present in much higher concentrations actually inside the car you are driving than they are in the air that the cyclist and trailer/cargo bike occupants following behind you are breathing.

[quote TwigTheWonderKid]@Haffiana perhaps they are he sort who don't buy into the ridiculous idea that they must "protect" their child by buying an enormous, polluting vehicle to transport them around, regardless of the health consequences to them, and those around them, of that decision?[/quote]
No. I buy into protecting my children by not cycling with them in the middle of the same road as the enormous polluting vehicle.

Are you talking about kids in seats at the back of the bikes with helmets on? We take Dd, 3, but we live on quiet roads near the beach, no way would I cycle in a city and those trailer things scare the crap out of me! I always worry what would happen if they came unattached or something, which I know likely can’t happen
Dd loves a bike ride though

I can't drive due to health reasons. I rode bikes with my DC on the back for years and then they rode their own. We had to do it to get to the school we were allocated as the buses were unreliable. I think the way cars are given all the power and all the space is frankly wrong.

No wonder there's so much obesity. People drive EVERYWHERE when they could walk or ride and improve the environment.

Why is it ok to blame cyclists for he damage that cars do?

I don’t think anyone in here is doing that. But if DS is dead, it wouldn’t comfort me to know it was a car driver’s fault.

I don’t drive. DS has had a balance bike since he was two, and he rides on the pavement while I ride next to him in the road.

It would be lovely to either van cars or have bike lanes everywhere and to feel safe taking him out on the roads, but I’ve cycled enough in London to know drivers are reckless and can hit you even if you are cycling along lit up like a Christmas tree. So I’m not risking it until DS is bigger, and more likely to survive being knocked off.

He knows that if we want to go somewhere, we walk, ride, or take the train/bus. He doesn’t need to ride on the back of my bike to learn that.

@Changechangychange

Why is it ok to blame cyclists for he damage that cars do?

I don’t think anyone in here is doing that. But if DS is dead, it wouldn’t comfort me to know it was a car driver’s fault.

I don’t drive. DS has had a balance bike since he was two, and he rides on the pavement while I ride next to him in the road.

It would be lovely to either van cars or have bike lanes everywhere and to feel safe taking him out on the roads, but I’ve cycled enough in London to know drivers are reckless and can hit you even if you are cycling along lit up like a Christmas tree. So I’m not risking it until DS is bigger, and more likely to survive being knocked off.

He knows that if we want to go somewhere, we walk, ride, or take the train/bus. He doesn’t need to ride on the back of my bike to learn that.

Well lovely for you that you have that choice. I never. School was too far to walk and there was no reliable bus. Or train.

Everyone agrees that the problem is the cars. Obviously.

But why would you put your children at risk to prove a point? No it’s not the same as walking with a buggy - they are intermittently near the exhaust, not constant.

It’s extremely bizarre to hoist your own children on a petard that is inherently so dangerous. I KNOW it’s the cars that are dangerous, not the bicycles, but being RIGHT doesn’t magically protect your children.

And a bloody big flag is worth fuck all when someone comes around the corner at even 20mph stoned or high and sees you too late.

THIS. Exactly this.

I cycle with DD in a bike seat all the time. I do cycle more conservatively with her than I do on my own (use trails more & busy roads less). The reality is that collision speeds will be much lower on a bike than in a car & below 25mph, the chase of fatality or serious injury is low in either vehicle but two 25mph cars head on = 50mph, v 5-10mph on bike against 25mph is much lower total speed. Different injuries too - mass of a huge car stopping v bike is different. As a cyclist I also wouldn’t chance it through an intersection where you’re most likely to have a car turn in to you, whereas loads of drivers will do that.

I think there’s a lot more variation in injuries by bike than by car, as in if I make very conservative cycling choices, I can control A LOT of the risk. In a car, you’re locked into the road with other drivers going fast so the vehicle itself is designed to protect you assuming you’ll potentially be in a head on collision with a combined speed of 140mph. Not likely on a bike.

There’s also the simple fact that there is not enough space on the road & the environmental impact is awful. Are you factoring the costs to your child’s health if not changing behavior due to climate chance & fuel emissions?

The issue isn't the bikes, they're safe and with the current climate emergency should absolutely be encouraged.
The problem is that cars have been given priority for so long and that's reflected in both the road layout and driver attitude. In Belgium and Holland roads are designed with bikes as a priority, kept away from cars, if needed reducing car space to one lane with passing points. Cars always give way to bikes and because it's so safe people are able to cycle regularly.

We NEED to get closer to that model and prioritise bikes and mass transit. Cars are so dangerous, in terms of accidents, pollution threatening health and pollution threatening the environment.

Obviously yabu, we need to encourage cycling and limit car use. It shouldn’t be legal for cars to cause so much pollution and we certainly shouldn’t be planning our spaces around them.

FortunesFave we are talking about putting toddlers on the back of an adult bike. No school age child fits on one of those. Are you seriously telling me your parents took you to school in a toddler bike seat because there was no reliable bus?

The only reason a child would be hurt in one of these contraptions is because a car driver has ploughed into it, but yes let’s all blame cyclists for being irresponsible

@Changechangychange

FortunesFave we are talking about putting toddlers on the back of an adult bike. No school age child fits on one of those. Are you seriously telling me your parents took you to school in a toddler bike seat because there was no reliable bus?

Yes I know what we're talking about. My toddler went on the back of my bike and my older, school age child rode her own bike.

My own parents never took me to school on anything other than my own legs as it was over the road.

@eeek88

The only reason a child would be hurt in one of these contraptions is because a car driver has ploughed into it, but yes let’s all blame cyclists for being irresponsible

Well that’s just not true.

You’re aware cyclists are capable of falling, right? Even without any cars around.

You’re aware cyclists are capable of falling, right? Even without any cars around.

and people fall getting in or out of their car. or get injured by the door closing on their head/hands/legs...
cyclists rarely just fall off at comfortable speeds (15mph). if they do it's usually due to being forced into the gutter by idiot car drivers or inadequate road surfaces that can also damage cars.

@ronswansonstache

When I lived in london I used to see a dad take his son to school in one every day down the Holloway Road. It made my blood run cold! I'm not sure the pollution would be great either - kids often seem level with exhausts of many vehicles.

I used to cycle commute in London and was worried about this, but there are studies out somewhere that show that cycling and walking is far less exposed than driving in a car or taking a bus, in terms of pollution. Cycling being faster than walking also means you are exposed for a shorter time.

www.theguardian.com/environment/video/2014/aug/12/london-air-pollution-public-transport-video

"Cyclist privilege" as if cars and their drivers aren't prioritised at every level

I know. I laughed at that too. “Cyclists’ privilege.” How ironic.

@MrsSkylerWhite

Those trailers ought to be illegal. Forget the obvious collisions dangers, they’re at exhaust height. Has society learned nothing about the long-term effects of pollution.

Akin to skiers who fly down the slopes with kids in backpacks.
They’re such expert cyclists/skiers that no accident could ever possibly befall them. Unbelievable arrogance.

I've always been concerned about the proximity of a child in a trailer to the exhaust fumes.

And many years ago, when they were still a very new thing, I nearly flattened one. I was in a queue of traffic and I was waiting to turn left. When I got level with the road I was turning into, I checked my mirrors, saw the bike, waited for the bike to pass and started to turn. Then I spotted something at the back of the bike.

I felt really sick when I realised that it was a child in a trailer. I'd never seen one before and thought how stupid it was to have a child in a trailer that is below the level of a car's door mirrors. I think the things that go on the front of a bike are safer, no-one's going to turn left a few feet in front of a bike. Well, not unless they're really bad driver.

But none of these bother me as much as the lycra louts who ride the wrong way down one-way streets, jump red lights etc. At least the people with children tend to be more careful.

So what sort of parent would put their tiny child in a box on the end of a bike and go out amongst all those dangerous cars and all that pollution

One that doesn’t have a car but needs to get their child to nursery or preschool, maybe it’s just that bit too far to walk but they can’t afford taxis? No one cares about our safety, everything said about bikes can be said about walking too.

Needs to be a realignment towards pedestrians and cyclists.

I just find this thread really sad. We live in a world that is only getting more polluted and a society where people only feel safe in cars.
My partner takes my toddler out on his bike, although it does worry me I do notice cars tend to be more careful around his bike. What really needs to happen is for drivers to be taught properly how to drive around bikes, more bike lanes to keep riders safer and actually for people to just drive less.

Also—re: exhaust fumes.

I’m an anti-masker for virus protection, but it’s not a bad idea to wear a mask for pollution control.

It’s something they actually really do in parts of China and PM2.5 particulates are magnitudes larger than a virus. The weave actually can somewhat block these larger particles.

Something to consider anyway.