To think this is so unsafe…

[MyBadHabitsLeadToYou]

Parents with toddlers on the back of the bike, cycling on busy city roads with the buses and the crazy drivers.

Howwww is this legal?! When the rules on car seats are so strict.

And don’t even start me on those flimsy trailer things that are so low down they couldn’t be seen from a large car.

Am I missing something??

our bike trailer is the same height as my stroller!

Do you often push it through moving traffic?

Deaths/injuries per mile it is much more dangerous to bicycle than be in a car. Obviously. Also over 80s are much more dangerous drivers per mile driven, especially at junctions - accelerators and brakes get confused. Our relative was still driving with dementia - his GP felt bad asking them to stop as he lived in a quiet small village (with a primary school with lots on bikes). His car had bumps over it. We took his car keys off him which I felt so bad about but not as bad as if he’d hurt someone.

So much hysteria on this thread.

All the people saying it should be banned - have you actually read any stats on accidents around kids in bike seats (adjusted for hours travelled etc)
? Have you actually heard of anyone who has had an accident?

I cycle and I cycle with my kids on the back. I cycle at a different speed, a different time of day, and cycle differently (eg on the pavement if busy) when I have my kid on the back. We have helmets and high vis on. I know and see loads of people that do as well. I've never seen anything dangerous. I'm not saying it's not, but if you're saying it is dangerous then I think you need a bit more than 'it looks scary' if this thread is genuinely going to make people think. I've had a quick Google and there is loads about pedestrians on school runs getting knocked over and that's all

'125 people died in the roads in London, of which 68 were pedestrians.'

Not surprised about the pedestrians - too many people driving through red lights ( only just avoided being hit 4 times by cyclists running red lights in the past week alone on South Lambeth Road. As for Clapham Road !!!! ) At least car drivers can be identified on camera no chance with cyclists.

Done both extensively, and trailers mean you get LOADS more room than with cars. I think if you watched a random male cyclist running red lights in the centre of London and compared him to a mum commuting slowly with a toddler on residential streets, you would conflate the two, when they are very different. I get what you are saying with regards to carseats, but honestly, the newest bike seats have impact protection in the most likely places a child would receive an impact with the ground. The times I have come off the bike with a heavy toddler on the back (two due to over balancing at a stop at the top of a hill with no cars and one due to a dumb dog owner throwing a ball across the bike path), I have been scratched or banged up and the toddler absolutely spotless (just shaken up). We did replace DDs helmet afyer the dog incident because it was scratched, but she still said "go bike?" much sooner than even I was comfortable with! It is great, quick, cheap, safe transport.

We lived abroad at one point and seeing 3/4 (option on dog) kids plus parents stacked on a moped with no helmets was considered normal. My son went to nursery on a tuk tuk, and his nursery teacher (I have since learned) took him to the market at lunchtime on her moped to buy fruit because he wasn't overly fond of lunch.

I'm not a hugely confident cyclist but had both my kids in a trailer on my bike in South London and have never had a 70mph lorry ambush me. On the whole people were very respectful (perhaps it was the little flag).

Where we live now, we know farmers kids who have quad bikes and all sorts, I'm a bit worried about that. But I'm equally worried about my kids being hit by a car generally.

It's your own personal level of risk I suppose.

Have you been to Cambridge? Majority of parents do the school run on bikes. Cambridge is a city where drivers are used to bikes and it makes a difference. 8:30, you'll see trails of parents around the city with kids on seats at the back and front, little kids following on their tiny bikes, cargo bikes, trailers etc. Since starting to live here, I've never heard about an accident. Car accidents though, loads. Better for the environment, your body and for traffic. Oh, and kids being close to exhaust gas, I was worried about that too, but the trailers and cargo bikes are covered with canopies. But op, I don't think it's nice to be accusing cycling parents for not caring about their children's safety, that's untrue and unfair and a childish and unconsidered viewpoint.

I cycle daily with toddler on the back of my bike and with older DC on their own bike. I do just stick to pathways and raised cycle lanes on the pavement though. We wear high vis and MIPS helmets.

I don't like trailers as the DC are then breathing in air at exhaust pipe level. I also chose a rear bike seat because I read the ones that sit on the cross bar make the child act as your air bag in a crash.

www.rospa.com/road-safety/advice/cyclists-and-motorcyclists/accident-rates

I’m not a cyclist.

But, statistically cyclists live longer than non-cyclists. Children whose parents cycle rather than drive are surely likely to also grow up to cycle.

Global warming is likely to cause far higher levels of death In our children’s lifetimes than RTA involving cars and DC on bikes. Yet still people buy big, heavy cars and drive them short journeys. How does that tie in with a risk assessment if our children’s lives?

Before anyone makes any assumptions about me, I'd like to declare that I am a car driver and not a cyclist, but I am really disturbed by many of the comments and much of the warped logic on this thread.

Why is everyone piling in to criticise parents who are cycling rather than the agressive, self-entitled drivers who endanger other people's lives?

And, unlike the ridiculously oversized vehicles which most people drive, cyclists cause no polution and no traffic and active travel is much healthier than sitting on your arse in car.

Those who are clutching their pearls about children on these bikes breathing in fumes (caused by cars) might be interested to know that their own children, sat safely in their car seats, are subjected to several times higher levels of pollution in the car than when they are walking in the street.

I am so glad that the Highway Code changes will include a “hierarchy of road users” which will hopefully redress the current inbalance and enshrine in law the concept that those who can do the greatest harm ie those in vehicles, should have the greatest responsibility to reduce the danger they may pose to others.

@SlipperyDippery

I understand the safety concerns but some of the nasty attitudes of some on this thread to the parents who transport their children this way is ridiculous.

It is imperative that we reduce the number of cars on the road for all of our sakes, and calling people who try to cycle not drive shit parents just makes you sound like an arsehole.

This exactly. My DH tries to cycle as much with our DD when they go out instead of using the car to try to be more environment friendly. It is especially useful for small trips. The thing is the more people who cycle the more likely the council/government is going to do something to improve road safety for cyclists. In our area for example, our council just got funding to improve cycle lanes but it must be shown that it is being used etc.

@MyBadHabitsLeadToYou

But…what if a car travelling at 30mph hits your bike with your exposed little toddler on the back of it??

Why do I need to explain this 🤯

What happens if a car hits your baby in the pram whilst you cross the road? Or as you walk along the path?

And no, I don't ride a bike before you ask.

@MyBadHabitsLeadToYou

But…what if a car travelling at 30mph hits your bike with your exposed little toddler on the back of it??

Why do I need to explain this 🤯

But why is it more dangerous than crossing the road or walking along the road. My pushchair doesn't have any additional protection on it, and she doesn't wear a helmet on it , so why would a bike need to.

When we lived in Cambridge I was honestly astounded that people did this. I could understand cycling on the pavement with kids in a trailer, but on the road with lorries and buses and vans. Fuck no.

But why is it more dangerous than crossing the road or walking along the road.

Because the bike is travelling IN the road with the cars, busses and lorries for the whole journey, whereas the pedestrian with a buggy is mainly on the pavement away from vehicles, except for just the small proportion of time out of a walking journey it takes a pedestrian to cross roads.

Yes, very occasionally, there is an accident where a vehicle mounts a pavement or runs a red light. This is a different level of frequency to the amount of times a cyclist will have to manoeuvre around turning lorries, etc, if cycling on busy roads.

I think the fumes may have got to some peoples heads if they seriously cannot see the difference between crossing a road with a pram and using a trailer on a road with traffic. I am for cycling by the way i love it, and don't see an issue with the seats.

53Minesril

Cycling with DS on the back was one of my favourite parts of parenting! Once I stupidly went round an icy corner too fast, went over on my side. DS was absolutely fine. My leg on the other hand was killing me!

As for cars running into me, I was very, very, very cautious on main roads, getting off and walking if it looked too precarious. You have to have every single wit about you! DS heard some very choice language directed at dickhead drivers.

DS loved going round roundabouts. He'd be giggling away with me going 'please see me please see me...' grin

You had me until the last paragraph

With the best will in the world many drivers do try their best to give cyclists space but there are soooo many dickheads on the road why would you expose your precious cargo to that risk?

Common sense says in busy, built up areas your kids safety would be at risk if you're joining cars and lorries on a busy roundabout. Hoping and praying that no-one hits you (or your child) can't possibly be enjoyable?

In 2019 on roads only:
10 children (0-15) killed on bikes. This is probably an accurate figure.
462 children seriously injured (common is brain injury) but this figure is likely to be two or three times higher as reporting isn’t accurate.
1500+ slightly injured, again the figure is underreported so likely to be double.

These figures don’t include accidents happening off road.
No figures on children carriers.

Interestingly, the more bikes, the relatively safer it is as drivers presumably are more aware.

@jeannie46

'125 people died in the roads in London, of which 68 were pedestrians.'

Not surprised about the pedestrians - too many people driving through red lights ( only just avoided being hit 4 times by cyclists running red lights in the past week alone on South Lambeth Road. As for Clapham Road !!!! ) At least car drivers can be identified on camera no chance with cyclists.

I totally agree that cyclists shouldn't run red lights but you do realise that out of the 400+ pedestrians killed each year on our roads more than 99% of them are killed by people driving motorised vehicles?

@Saz12

I’m not a cyclist.

But, statistically cyclists live longer than non-cyclists. Children whose parents cycle rather than drive are surely likely to also grow up to cycle.

Global warming is likely to cause far higher levels of death In our children’s lifetimes than RTA involving cars and DC on bikes. Yet still people buy big, heavy cars and drive them short journeys. How does that tie in with a risk assessment if our children’s lives?

Totally this. It’s not just global warming - air pollution is responsible for thousands of deaths a year as is inactivity. Even corrected for smoking/diet etc cyclists longer. If it’s too dangerous on the road the onus should be on drivers to adjust their behaviour.

Those lovely bike additions for transporting children are wonderful on the continent where they have cycle lanes or bikes are accepted on pavements, not such an appealing prospect to be mixed in with heavy traffic, frankly terrifying.
I wish we had continental style cycle lanes in all our towns or at least mixed use pedestrian/cyclist pavements (with the exception of mamils on the main carriageway who wouldn't be seen dead in a cycle lane). Would improve the general fitness of the population too and be better for the environment than HS2 (with probably much greater decrease in car journeys). Guess the government's donors are not into cycle lanes but are into railways.

Well there certainly are some dangers in this situation - potential collision, pollution, and longer term problems such as climate change and obesity.

But those problems are all caused by cars, not bikes, so why blame the cyclists?

Blimey op, cars have been killing thousands of pedestrians, cyclists, other drivers, and passengers for decades and you've got a problem with a kid on a bike?!