To be sad that this was said to my dd when she was distressed

[Whocareswherewego76]

Me and my dd where talking about poor care within mental health services. Dd told me at her last mental health act assessment the psychiatrist firstly accused her of recording by “saying you’re not allowed to record” surely she should have asked her if she was recording before accusing her. Then after dd was sectioned and was upset about her she said to her “it’s your fault it’s your own actions” of course we are responsible for our own actions but mental illnesses do impact on that. Just to say most people who work in mental health services are great and dd’s community team are good.

It's possible the doctor's common law privacy rights could technically be breached, but ethically it's not considered right to refuse care because a patient is recording, and doctors are encouraged to consider whether there are access and equality considerations for the patient to benefit from a recording. Yes, ideally patients wouldn't covertly record, but sometimes they feel it's necessary. There's one official record of a conversation between a doctor and a patient, and it's written by the person with social power, knowledge, and public credibility, who has a lot to lose if the "wrong" things get written down. A psychiatric patient has little social power, less credibility, and is working at a knowledge disadvantage, within a system they don't have a say in, and moreover knows that a request to record may be refused or result in retaliatory withdrawal of care.

The BMA recommend that if a patient wants to record and the doctor doesn't want the consultation recorded, another doctor who doesn't mind being recorded should be found.

I think the general public isn't aware just how frequently psychiatric patients are lied to, manipulated, dismissed, provoked etc. by staff.

The comment about recording is normal as she was just warning your DD of the rules. I think recording is banned in hospitals without the consent of the patient/clinician.

The second comment sounds unkind and unprofessional but depends on the tone; was she trying to get your DD to accept responsibility for her actions? Eg DD was upset at being sectioned, so doctor pointed out DD’s behaviour (suicide attempt) was the reason she was being sectioned, for her own safety. To make the point they weren’t sectioning her as a punishment but as a way to keep her safe until she can keep herself safe.

If your DD is diagnosed with EUPD or CPTSD she may unfortunately encounter a lot of negative attitudes from staff as personality disorders are not well understood.

@StrangeToSee

The comment about recording is normal as she was just warning your DD of the rules. I think recording is banned in hospitals without the consent of the patient/clinician.

The second comment sounds unkind and unprofessional but depends on the tone; was she trying to get your DD to accept responsibility for her actions? Eg DD was upset at being sectioned, so doctor pointed out DD’s behaviour (suicide attempt) was the reason she was being sectioned, for her own safety. To make the point they weren’t sectioning her as a punishment but as a way to keep her safe until she can keep herself safe.

If your DD is diagnosed with EUPD or CPTSD she may unfortunately encounter a lot of negative attitudes from staff as personality disorders are not well understood.

This.

And when you are at the point you need to be sectioned, anything you hear and interpret will be distorted. You have heard your DD side... which is against the 3 or 4 MH professionals that would have been in the room for her MHA. Am speaking from experience.

@XenoBitch- what experience? As a patient or as a professional?

[quote DishingOutDone]@XenoBitch- what experience? As a patient or as a professional?[/quote]
As a patient.

In my experience, most psychiatrists aren't a full shilling. They're only useful for prescribing medication. Just pat them on the head and leave them to their pointless ramblings.

Excellent posts from @ClumpingBambooIsALie. I actually believe patients should have the automatic right to record meetings with psychiatrists as what a lot of them come out with is outrageous. And then when you, as a patient, try and challenge, tell another professional, you are often not believed.

Oh and just because you have been sectioned does not automatically mean you are unable to differentiate fact from fiction or are not hearing things correctly. Please can people stop with this. It is a belief that certain psychiatrists often manipulate to discredit their patient's legitimate complaints.

Sadly there is a lot of power imbalance and abuse of power in the mental health profession.

Yanbu. It is sad and wrong that your DD was spoken to like this. She is allowed to record her appointments, as a PP has pointed out, if the doctor refuses to see her as a consequence then they are obliged to find someone who will. If the doctor is going to be accountable for their practice then there should be no issue in recording the meeting.

Probably other words would have been more professional...telling her she needs to be there to as they take suicide attempts seriously? I don't have a lot of knowledge in the matter. It is true it is her own doing, but supposed to be to help her, not punish her...it seems cold to say that when it really is the illness at the root of it. Hope she can get the right meds while in to help her out. Hang in there.

@GullyGull

clumping she is not allowed to record without the other person's permission. Its a breach of privacy to record without permission. The psychiatrist was being very clear they did not give permission which is their right to do so. If the daughter was not recording then its a moot point but if she was the psychiatrist was well within their rights to stop the consultation.

Individuals are not bound by gdpr regulations and thus do not need the other persons consent to record. As stated by another poster, they are limited in what they can do with it, it should be for personal use only but can be transcribed and shared as long as the actual recording isn't shared. If people are behaving as they should be, why would they have any issues with being recorded anyway?

Sorry your dd was spoken to that way OP. I'm also sorry that people automatically dismiss what happened as a misunderstanding because she has MH issues.

Sausage

Individuals are not but the NHS is and the Consultant Psychiatrist is an employee of the NHS therefore would need to abide by their Data Protection Act (2018) policies (GDPR).

Also uncontrolled and unregulated copies of recordings can be open to data manipulation, whether its a recording or transcribed. Its not as simple as ' if you are behaving as you should then you shouldn't be afraid of being recorded' it's much more complex than that. Any agreed recordings of meetings would need to be handled in the same vein as Police interviews to protect all parties involved.

What I think you are describing is a 'whistle blowing scenario' in which a court would need to determine whether a crime (such as physical abuse) were occurring, which could therefore be argued as mitigation against data protection.

Anyway this is all a moot point as the OP said her daughter was not trying to record!

The consultant isn't doing the recording therefore isn't breaking gdpr/data protection law.

*Also uncontrolled and unregulated copies of recordings can be open to data manipulation, whether its a recording or transcribed. Its not as simple as ' if you are behaving as you should then you shouldn't be afraid of being recorded' it's much more complex than that. Any agreed recordings of meetings would need to be handled in the same vein as Police interviews to protect all parties involved.

What I think you are describing is a 'whistle blowing scenario' in which a court would need to determine whether a crime (such as physical abuse) were occurring, which could therefore be argued as mitigation against data protection. *

No, I'm talking about the fact that any individual can record their appointments/meetings for personal reasons. Recording an appt or a meeting about yourself, your children etc would fall under this category and therefore gdpr/data protection does not apply, they don't have to gain consent from other parties or worry about how it's stored etc. I frequently do this as some meetings I attend are long, a lot gets discussed and there are rarely accurate minutes/records. It helps to go back to it later on if I need to go over exactly what was said/agreed.

When recording, an individual can ask for consent from other parties but they don't have too. If the recording is for personal use and therefore no consent from the other parties was required, the recording itself cannot be shared, so there would be zero point in manipulating the data from it. I'm not sure if a transcription can be shared, I can't see how it would be any different from sharing minutes from a meeting personally (which can also be, and are sometimes manipulated by some services...) but couldn't fully say either way if you can share a transcript freely.

In some circumstances covert recordings may potentially be used as evidence in court/Tribunal proceedings. I was advised that as the recording can't be shared, you can submit a transcription (which naturally would be expected in full in a court and there would be zero point in trying to manipulate it) and the courts can then order the recording to be shared and submitted if they deem it necessary. The case law is a bit all over the place with this, but there have been cases where covert recordings have been admitted. Obviously that's quite serious territory and as you say, currently irrelevant.

OP are you the poster who is always posting threads complaining about the police who dealt with your daughter, the paramedics who dealt with your daughter, the doctors who dealt with your daughter and now the psychiatrist who dealt with your daughter?