So remind me again why having a European army was such a terrible idea

[MrsBede]

We clearly have fuck all influence over American policy and are not a big player on the world stage (surprise surprise) so why was it/would it have been so dreadful to be at the helm of a powerful European coalition with military capacity?

"Because, to be frank, nobody wants to fight and die for "Europe"."

Why not - we expect Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish citizens to fight for the UK and none of them have a conservative government

@walksen

"Because, to be frank, nobody wants to fight and die for "Europe"."

Why not - we expect Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish citizens to fight for the UK and none of them have a conservative government

You're not fighting for the government. You're fighting for the country.

And we don't 'expect' random citizens of the above nations to sign up for the British army. It's a free choice. If they don't feel loyalty to Britain, they obviously won't sign up.

Ha, yes! Supported by Spain and armed by the French. Still, it’s be kind of amusing watching the Argentinians screw up the Falklands the same way they screw up their own country.

It’d also have saved us a bloody fortune guarding the place for the last 40 years.

@DynamoKev

Ever heard of nation states OP? The Westphalian system. Like someone else said no one wants to fight and die for Europe.

Why not - we expect Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish citizens to fight for the UK and none of them have a conservative government

Every soldier has signed up of their own free will to fight for the UK that is no expectation that's a choice.

"Every soldier has signed up of their own free will to fight for the UK that is no expectation that's a choice."

Conscription is pretty rare in European countries too so I don't see how that is an argument against an EU army. If you sign up to army in Scotland you can be sent to war by a foreigner who in no way represents the people of Scotland or would ever be elected by them. What difference would it have made if those foreigners were in Brussels instead of London?

A European Army would require a common defence policy. A common defence policy is achievable across so many diverse nations.

We can't all even agree to be in the same economic club.

"A European Army would require a common defence policy. A common defence policy is achievable across so many diverse nations."

Then we might have spent lives and money sending forces/ airplanes etc to conflicts like iraq, syria and Afghanistan.

Because Military Industrial Complex

Scotland, Wales and N Ireland are part of Britain and therefore serve in a British army. Having devolved governments with doesn't mean they aren't British.
Personally I don't want the EU having the power to send British soldiers into conflict - that power should remain with the PM.

The Brits would find some way to louse it up. But really, unless it was purely defensive , I can't see the point . NATO has no business in Central Asia so why would a European army go there ?

We have Nato and the UN. Both pretty bloody useless when it comes to international conflict. An army consisting of approx 24 nations has disaster written all over it

In theory the idea has merit. However, most of Europe has no appetite to invest in armed services, and the UK might find itself providing a disproportionate level of resource.

We wouldn't have any sovereign control over where are young people are being sent to fight and die.

"We wouldn't have any sovereign control over where are young people are being sent to fight and die."

As per my previous posts this is also true of the Scottish or Welsh parliaments and assemblies.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

Scotland, Wales and N Ireland are part of Britain and therefore serve in a British army. Having devolved governments with doesn't mean they aren't British. Personally I don't want the EU having the power to send British soldiers into conflict - that power should remain with the PM.

Northern Ireland is NOT part of Britain, don’t be so ridiculous. NI is part of the U.K.

People from NI are NOT British, they are Irish.

FGS, what are they teaching in schools nowadays?

(Unless they are from Britain but have moved to NI, obviously!)

Leaving aside the slightly contentious issue of “British Isles”, this explain who is what.

How do armies manage to function in countries like India where there is no common language?

They use English.

Scottish person here, who doesn't see English people as foreigners - do lots of other Scots really think this way?!

Okay Masking, I probably shouldn't use Britain and UK interchangeably, but I don't think you are entirely right either. I thought people from NI had a right to either/both nationalities. Many people would consider themselves British rather than Irish

Dh used to be seconded to the EU Military staff. He said it was like herding cats. He then worked at NATO. Very few allies actual pay their way in terms of their defence spending; preferring to let the U.S. cover the costs,and do the heavy lifting. There is no point in duplicating what works with NATO under the aegis of the EU.

Furthermore, where would you get the manpower? Nations have first call on their Forces, then NATO, then the EU. If you have an EU Force who will be in it, and who will fund it?

I think it's better to collaborate when we feel it necessary or desirable, and step back when we don't. Staying independent is key IMO.

Because EU country armies always end in disaster with Britain having to come to the rescue.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

Okay Masking, I probably shouldn't use Britain and UK interchangeably, but I don't think you are entirely right either. I thought people from NI had a right to either/both nationalities. Many people would consider themselves British rather than Irish

They don’t have a “right” to a nationality, but the do have a right to passports from both the U.K. and Republic Of Ireland.