AIBU re landlord’s notice dispute..

[PardonBeeOne]

Sorry its long but its an effort to give a clear picture…

I have been a tenant for over 10 yrs. Finally managed to buy.
Over the years LL has come if called out for something or another but would go for months without coming because they did not need to.
We looked after the property to the best of our ability, had a window cleaner, regular gardening, all bills and rent paid on time. Never missed a payment or asked for rent relief. Recently had driveway washed.
Before Covid 19, we had a regular cleaner. So the place was generally well looked after.

When we moved in, there was new wallpaper in the bathroom. Come winter, it turned out it was a mouldy spot that started to grow back. We removed wall paper and painted it with ant mould paint.. it became easier to maintain during winter months.

There was some wear and tear, having had to bring up 2 kids during that time. But LL was aware of them.
LL had always wanted to do the kitchen so problems in the kitchen were met with, ‘we plan to extend the kitchen anyway’

The boiler was replaced but the pipes were left exposed and we were left to live with that for a few years. We never complained.

Fast forward two months ago, we completed and exchanged. The day after we collected the keys, we gave a month’s notice to LL. up to this point, I thought we had a civil business relationship.
Few days after notice was sent, we got what I thought was a hostile email from LL complaining that we blindsided them. Notice was not sufficient… contract says one month’s notice. LL listed how they have been lenient over the years, not increasing rent but we return that by not being grateful. They demanded a spot check of the property within ASAP which we couldn’t do due to work commitments, but offered a day we could do.
LL said wants property the way it was when it was handed over to us… well not possible as its been lived in so general wear and tear is expected. Having said that, I expected them to be pleased because of the effort we have made over the years

Now LL is saying umpteen years ago when we moved in, we moved in 12 days early (I cant even remember). So they are saying our notice should be 12 days less and they set a date. No complaints, we are working towards leaving.

My AIBU is: Are we within our right to call LL on this because as its never been an issue before.
LL is blaming us for property not being maintained outside… I say outside is LL’s responsibility to paint and decorate, Is this U?

LL said they will get a quote for carpet cleaning and fixing things they knew about and send us the bill? I think LL does not want to give us our deposit… AIBU?

Is the deposit protected and is there an inventory? If so he'll need to arrange a check out if no inventory no proof of original condition of property so can't keep the deposit

Dazedandconfused10

Yes deposit was protected but we have not heard if we will get any of it yet.
Property was rented unfurnishied

unfurnished

Another LL who doesn’t actually understand their own job. Expected the cash cow to just pay forever. Now they have to do some work for it.

After ten years they will be expected to replace carpets for new tenants.

He’s annoyed he’s losing his long term, responsible tenant and I think he’ll do his best to keep your deposit. I’m assuming it’s not managed by an agency which is a pity. We own a BTL and get our agents to do a professional inventory to be fair to both sides.

It is very unlikely he will be able to keep the deposit if you have been a tenant for ten years.

Leave the property in a clean state. Take time stamped photographs.
State that you expect the full deposit returned or you will go to arbitration.

If your landlord has any sense they will just return your deposit.

You are not being unreasonable. Landlords are utter bastards. I say this after living in 17 rented properties and having to fight tooth and nail for my deposit back each time. We were model tenants, paid on time, kept each property clean and tidy. Paid for professional exit cleans every time we moved. Stick to your guns, your LL is being ridiculous. Good luck!

I am a landlord. Your landlord is behaving unreasonably. In your circumstances, I would expect to do a full repaint/ carpets etc because you have been there a long time and wear and tear is to be expected.

Ps we are not all 'utter bastards'. I try my very best to be responsive but to leave my tenants in peace.

YANBU.

Wear and tear is to be expected. As LL they will need to cover deep clean of carpets or new carpets that's not your responsibility.

It's landlords like this that make tenants not want to pay their final months' rent. Not that I am giving you ideas.

In relation to the 12 days, it's the start date on the most recent signed tenancy agreement that counts. And if that agreement has expired, then you only have to give 31 days notice.

In relation to the condition of the property, landlord is responsible for the exterior, you are responsible for the inside subject to fair wear and tear given the duration of the tenancy.

Who is the deposit protected with?

I'm a landlady of a property and this sounds very unreasonable. I'd suggest arbitration to them yourself if they carry on being ridiculous.

www.mydeposits.co.uk/content-hub/fair-wear-and-tear-what-is-it-and-how-is-it-applied/ this is useful.

They can't charge you for carpet cleaning of a 10+ year old carpet
Wait for the bill then get the deposit protection scheme to arbitrate. I doubt he'll see a penny.

Do not engage with this. You say your deposit is protected in the scheme, so simply raise a dispute if LL tries to retain the deposit.

We had a similar experience from our LL when we told them we had bought a house. Came up with all sorts of things in order to try and retain the full deposit.

We raised a dispute and got everything back. We put forward a very good argument as there had been sooo many issues with the house (broken door that wasn’t fixed for 6 weeks meaning the house couldn’t be secured, possibly being the worst), but it wasn't actually necessary in the end as the LL failed to produce the tenancy agreement as requested by the scheme….how stupid can you get!!

Deposit scheme overwhelmingly sides with tenants in these situations I believe. Good luck.

Gilmorehill

We only had agents when we moved in to allow proper vetting and all, after that, LL let whatever arrangement he had with them, lapse.

If there is no check in report to compare a check out report to he can't keep any of the deposit. The deposit protection will win in your favour mostly likely due to length of tenancy anyway

I’m in a similar position after 5 years tenancy and I will be going down the wear and tear route if they try and hold my deposit.

I’m a landlord. Your ll is bonkers. When tenants leave after a long period, I plan for extensive work and wouldn’t charge unless there is serious damage.

Carpets will be considered to have depreciated to pretty much zero unless they can prove they are expected to last longer due to being exceptionally good quality, such as Axminster. But even then….

I agree with others about not engaging. This should go straight to the tenancy deposit scheme. Any damage will most likely come under fwat and you’ll most likely get 100% back. They are cheeky fuckers.

And as for the exit date, are you saying they want you to leave 12 days earlier and pay for those 12 extra days when you’re not actually there? Was there anything in writing in place? This request is extremely odd and I don’t actually understand.

If your deposit is held in a scheme, you don't ask the landlord directly - just apply to the scheme for the return of your full deposit. LL has to prove why they should keep any of your money, and after 10 years, as long as you haven't knocked through any walls, you'll get it all back. Congratulations on your house purchase!

Don't even go to your LL with this. Login to your deposit and request 100% of it back once you've moved out. The LL will then respond via the same website. If there's a dispute this will be managed by a third party. You can upload your inventory and pictures from when you moved in and the one when you move out. They will decide. From personal experience don't worry and use the dispute service that's what it's for. Unless there's holes in the walls, things are damaged etc , it's unlikely you'll have a problem if it's fair wear and tear. Also landlords can't charge for carpet cleaning, curtain cleaning, painting anymore since the newlawl came in a year or two ago. When we renewed our tenancy, the charges that were in there for these disappeared. Obviously out of courtesy I would pay for a professional clean and get the carpets cleaned. But don't commit to anything just put the claim in

@Narutocrazyfox

You are not being unreasonable. Landlords are utter bastards. I say this after living in 17 rented properties and having to fight tooth and nail for my deposit back each time. We were model tenants, paid on time, kept each property clean and tidy. Paid for professional exit cleans every time we moved. Stick to your guns, your LL is being ridiculous. Good luck!

This.

And tell him you will be more than happy to dispute any attempted reductions for wear and tear over 10 years. Triple damages for withholding them unlawfully, isn't it? - said lightly

Stand firm. He is being unreasonable. You can give 1 month's notice pursuant to the terms of your contract, regardless of what he says in either direction. Or HE's breaking the terms. Again, said lightly, but firmly.

Oh, and take pictures of absolutely everything, date stamped, at the end.

@Dippydinosaurus

Don't even go to your LL with this. Login to your deposit and request 100% of it back once you've moved out. The LL will then respond via the same website. If there's a dispute this will be managed by a third party. You can upload your inventory and pictures from when you moved in and the one when you move out. They will decide. From personal experience don't worry and use the dispute service that's what it's for. Unless there's holes in the walls, things are damaged etc , it's unlikely you'll have a problem if it's fair wear and tear. Also landlords can't charge for carpet cleaning, curtain cleaning, painting anymore since the newlawl came in a year or two ago. When we renewed our tenancy, the charges that were in there for these disappeared. Obviously out of courtesy I would pay for a professional clean and get the carpets cleaned. But don't commit to anything just put the claim in

This isn’t strictly true. If a carpet is more dirty than expected and the carpet was clean on entry, a ll can expect it to be cleaned to an appropriate standard. Not necessarily professionally. But a professional clean may be required to get the carpet clean enough. Ditto an exceptionally dirty wall.

The situation is far fairer on tenants, who have unscrupulous landlords such as these whilst still protecting fair landlords. However, they still cannot expect the carpet cleaned after over a decade. It will have fully depreciated and would probably fall to pieces!

LL is a dick, and either clueless or bluffing.
I had tenants for 12 months that tried to claim their damage was fair wear and tear. We're talking cracked wall tiles, holes in walls, new carpet completely ruined, doors wrecked, stains, mould and filth everywhere. And I had to prove and document everything to keep the deposit, I couldn't just say 'well after 12 months the house shouldn't look like a shit tip'. So there is absolutely no way that he'll be allowed to make deductions for normal wear and tear, especially after 10yrs.