To think the old style pensions should be capped.

[Blindering]

ok, I am in Ireland so unaware of how UK pensions function but my neighbour who worked as a college lecturer but retired in 2008 in his 70s gets 600 euro a week in pension, equivalent to 513 stg.
This is on top of a 150k pay off he got when he left the job which I believe all civil servants here were getting.

But aibu to think a bachelor living in a house with the mortgage long paid off has no need for over 500stg a week? Like what would one need the money for at that stage in life?

Should have mentioned I pay 5.5% of my salary into it. My employer pays somewhere around 19%.

For higher level employees they pay 10% or 15% of their pension depending on how high they earn.

No. Public sector pensions and private pensions used to both be defined benefit final salary. Public sector have changed to defined benefit a career average - a worse deal. Private sector pensions have changed to defined contribution models, a much much worse deal. Career average pensions are still massively better than the vast majority of private sector pensions.

@Blindering

''This!

Part of the attraction of these types of jobs is the pension! Ask any public sector employee. ''

The 'is' there needs to change to 'was'.

If it were to change, public sector employees would need to be paid the equivalent of their private sector counterparts. The cost would be eye watering.

''But for the benefit of those being wound up by OPs comments - I’ve worked with members of defined benefit pension schemes for 32 years and never once has anyone suggested anything remotely close to the sentiment attributed above

It’s goady BS nothing more''

nope he stated it cos he's very honest and open, he's saying what others think but don't say.

@Blindering

''He made a sensible move.''

it's not about him personally though, it's the excess amount like him in that generation who have plenty when the next generations are fucked. But I'm a sinner for raising this.

No, you're just bitter and misinformed.

@AuntieJoyce

The fact he said that he and his colleagues knew it was a gravy train the future generations would not catch

Not aimed at OP who is a GF who is having a whale of a time on this thread

But for the benefit of those being wound up by OPs comments - I’ve worked with members of defined benefit pension schemes for 32 years and never once has anyone suggested anything remotely close to the sentiment attributed above

It’s goady BS nothing more

Yeah, filing that under B for bullshit...

What did you want him to do? Selflessly refuse the generous t&cs of his job?

It was part of his employment contract.

Sucks you can’t have the same but retrospectively “equalising” is not a thing. No one would agree.

Say you signed up pre-2008 or whatever, the conditions of your employment were that you’d earn £X now and then £Y in retirement as a pension. Or you could earn £X plus £Y now, and have no pension. If you chose the first option then someone said, just as you were about to retire, ‘Oops, that was a bit too generous of us, actually we’re not paying you £Y in retirement after all’ you’d just say ‘Okey-dokey, sounds fair, don’t worry about me having missed out on all those payments other people who chose option 2 have had for the same job.’

Would you?

''Nope. I'm a university academic and my pension is still pretty good.
It might not be as amazing as it was but both me and my husband should have a pretty comfortable retirement.''

and yet others in the thread in your situation said opposite, that and in Ireland new entrants into jobs like teaching got massive permanent pay cuts.

How can a new entrant get a pay cut?

@Blindering

''This!

Part of the attraction of these types of jobs is the pension! Ask any public sector employee. ''

The 'is' there needs to change to 'was'.

And yet you have any number of people on here telling you that they still now choose public sector because the pension is better.

Are you choosing not to hear, or not understanding?

I’ve never understood why uni staff keep striking over pensions. It’s a career average defined benefit scheme. Be grateful. You have to pay a smidge more into it to get a guaranteed benefit at the end? So what? The alternative is that the scheme goes bust and you’ll be on defined contribution like so many others - then you’ll have a right to be very upset.

@Blossomtoes

How can a new entrant get a pay cut?

They can’t. Of course.

What Blind means is “It’s totally unfair the people before me got more than I will get. I know it was too much that they got - cos I think they’ve screwed us by taking, taking, taking - but I still want as much as them cos I want to take too. Wow is me, life is so unfair, and I wish I knew more about basic economic principles. Or not.”

@Blindering

''Nope. I'm a university academic and my pension is still pretty good. It might not be as amazing as it was but both me and my husband should have a pretty comfortable retirement.''

and yet others in the thread in your situation said opposite, that and in Ireland new entrants into jobs like teaching got massive permanent pay cuts.

No. What other academics have said is that the pension isn't as good as it used to be. However, in the scheme of things it's still quite good and good enough to be considered a benefit.

''How can a new entrant get a pay cut?''

the govt wanted to cut all pay but the unions agreed with existing members to just cut all new entrants s effectively 2 teachers working side by side in Ireland , 1 qualifying in 09 and 1 in 10 will get a big difference in pay.
Effectively the teachers of Ireland sold their younger colleagues down the river.

In the UK, the minimum pension contribution for an employer is 3% of earnings between £6,240 and £50,270 per year.

The USS scheme is massively higher in terms of what is being contributed by the employer, and that will provide significantly better (both in terms of amount and security) benefits. There are of course private employers who contribute far more generously than the minimum, my employer is one of them - but they aren't that common, and even the very generous ones only just start to get close to the DB schemes in most cases.

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

I’ve never understood why uni staff keep striking over pensions. It’s a career average defined benefit scheme. Be grateful. You have to pay a smidge more into it to get a guaranteed benefit at the end? So what? The alternative is that the scheme goes bust and you’ll be on defined contribution like so many others - then you’ll have a right to be very upset.

I work at a university in admin rather than academia but I think the strike was about the sudden jump in what they had to contribute themselves. It was a big cut to their monthly salary which they weren't prepared for. The academics I work with are very talented and could earn a much bigger salary working in industry but the pension is great here so there are pros and cons. On the administration side I earn more than a comparable job in the private sector and my pension is waaay better. More money went into my pension in a year at a university than in the 5 years I was in the private sector.

I think the problem with the unis is that there are too many lefty academics who like an excuse to feel downtrodden / have a strike. They are just not living in the real world (prior academic poster excepted!).

For reference, according to the USS the employee contributions were 8.8% in 2019, rising to 11% in 2021.

Employer have gone from 19.5 to 23.7% - although some of this is going towards the deficit the scheme currently has so is not all for currrent members.

ajandjjmum

@NoSquirrels

This was a good question from ajandjj

OP - say you save into an interest-bearing account, how would you feel if someone came along when you were about to retire and said there was more money in there than you needed, so decided to take some to distribute to others.

Would you be happy with that?

Third time’s a charm, Blindering.
Any thoughts on @ajandjjmum original think-piece poser?

---

I came back (sad as I am!) to see if OP had answered, but no, she's still frothing about the unjustice without considering the wider picture. She'll grow up.

To those struggling to get a foot on the ladder, I genuinely have sympathy. Times have changed and we all need a bit of luck in life. But that luck shouldn't come through stealing off those who have saved.

Good to see you back OP.

Will you please answer my question?

AGAIN - PLEASE ANSWER OP!!!

@Blindering

''How can a new entrant get a pay cut?''

the govt wanted to cut all pay but the unions agreed with existing members to just cut all new entrants s effectively 2 teachers working side by side in Ireland , 1 qualifying in 09 and 1 in 10 will get a big difference in pay.
Effectively the teachers of Ireland sold their younger colleagues down the river.

That’s why you need to be in a union.

That was how Ireland worked to get themselves out of the financial crisis. Public sector workers took a massive hit (20% cut) to their salary. The UK had austerity instead.

In the 70s in London the rule of thumb was the house prices was three times the average salary.

and yet everybody I knew in London over 45, many on basic jobs that required no education had houses.

Fucking bollocks. My parents left London in 1961 - both were teachers - precisely because they knew they would never be able to afford to buy a house there on teacher's wages. Not if they wanted a family as well.

''Fucking bollocks. My parents left London in 1961 - both were teachers - precisely because they knew they would never be able to afford to buy a house there on teacher's wages. Not if they wanted a family as well.''

and yet I know many couples now in their 70s in London who bought a house on 1 wage and had children. These was likely very common as back then women often gave up work when kids came along.

''That’s why you need to be in a union.''

and what good is the union for new entrants when it is the union that fucking screwed them over?

@StatisticallyChallenged one of the things that academics are annoyed at is that while our contribution is being dictated to us i.e. am either all in paying 11% or am completely out - I actually don't know what the final defined benefit is going to be by the time am retired. So whilst my employer cant changes the system retroactively for retired academics it can keep changing it for existing entrants. Considering that we have already had pay freezes/below inflation pay for best part of ten years - yes it create inter-generational animosity