To think the old style pensions should be capped.

[Blindering]

ok, I am in Ireland so unaware of how UK pensions function but my neighbour who worked as a college lecturer but retired in 2008 in his 70s gets 600 euro a week in pension, equivalent to 513 stg.
This is on top of a 150k pay off he got when he left the job which I believe all civil servants here were getting.

But aibu to think a bachelor living in a house with the mortgage long paid off has no need for over 500stg a week? Like what would one need the money for at that stage in life?

@Blindering

''So they took action for New Entrants. They took appropriate action imo.''

no appropriate action would have being cuts for all.

So I’m going to presume you are still working. If someone comes along and changes the rules, you have what 20, 30, 40 years to adjust. What happens if you have 0 years to plan for those cuts?

Might I suggest you take your earning power, time, and energy and focus them on learning about investments, saving, and the power of compound interest. In the meantime, get your nose out of your neighbor’s finances and focus on yourself. You have a lot to learn about personal finance and empathy.

@Blindering

''So they took action for New Entrants. They took appropriate action imo.''

no appropriate action would have being cuts for all.

So, if it was decided that your salary was to be cut and that included an amount cut from the last few years as well you’d be happy with that?

Because that’s what you’re suggesting - part of the remuneration package that was agreed and worked for be retrospectively cut…

@titchy
And when he goes into a care home he'll be paying for it himself. Unlike those selfish fuckers who made no pension provision and have their care costs paid for by the tax payer (which includes your neighbour

THIS

@Blindering

''So they took action for New Entrants. They took appropriate action imo.''

no appropriate action would have being cuts for all.

One more time for luck:

say you save into an interest-bearing account, how would you feel if someone came along when you were about to retire and said there was more money in there than you needed, so decided to take some to distribute to others.

Would you be happy with that?

@Blindering

''So they took action for New Entrants. They took appropriate action imo.''

no appropriate action would have being cuts for all.

That is daft.

Do you not grasp that a contribution ihas been taken from their salary for their pension, every week/fortnight for 40 years (sometimes) or more? They can only use 40 years' service but the contributions have been taken for more than 40 years if they worked more than 40 years. It"s agreed, signed in contracts et cetera..

There is nothing to stop you paying in to a pension fund of your own though op.

I keep meaning to do this. Not sure if civil servants on the single scheme can get AVCs but I suppose, why wouldnt they take your business.

@Blindering

''Not everyone that age will have a paid off mortgage.''

eh I struggle to think of anybody in their mid 70s still paying a mortgage.

My parents are 71 and renting... no paid off mortgage

Can I also add that having invested into a civil service pension scheme and a state scheme, the amount you as an employee pay in vs the amount you get out, the civil service scheme is about 3 x s more generous. So yes you do pay into a civil service scheme, but the amount you pay in is fairly pitiful compared to the amount you would have to pay in to get the same benefit in a defined contribution scheme.

I worked from age 17 - 62. I always paid so called full stamp. Older women in my first job advised me not to fall for the married women’s stamp con.
I had 2 years off in 1972 when my first baby was born. Mat leave didn’t exist, I wfh typing to make ends meet. Various jobs in retail/offices that fit round school /parents help. Then 40 years in public service. I paid extra into the pension scheme, from what was a very low starting salary.

I get a decent pension from work. It must be awful to try and manage on our state pension. I wouldn’t be able to do anything other than just about manage. My two dogs - couldn’t afford them. Couldn’t help my adult children -
These attempts to divide generations seem often based on false distorted views. Yes my generation were more likely to be able to save a deposit, house prices are ludicrous. Social housing supply devastated by right to buy and councils not allowed to use thst cash to build more. No one. I know supported that

Bergrudgery at its finest. Wanting others to get less doesn't necessarily mean that others like you will get more.

@Blindering

''The stage of life when you've worked for 40 years and now are free to do what you want? I can think of loads to do with it. |''

and the entire generation below them can't afford housing because the govt is paying whopper pensions to older generation.

The government aren't paying these amounts in pensions. Higher pensions are due to the job/company the person did.

@Blindering

''OP. It’s none of your business anyway.''

it is everybody's business how the govt spend tax money.

Surely most of what you're talking about isn't tax money though it's his private pension he payed into FROM HIS WAGES

@Blindering

''If you already have a house OP why don't you downsize to a flat and donate the money to some poor young person for a deposit. It's the least you can do when you feel the system is so unfair.''

I have a 1 bed flat. I got it cheap as it needed a lot of repair work and still does.

Yesterday 16:57 Blindering

''I'd rather the government spent the money on pensions than a shite water rafting facility in the middle of Dublin.''

I meant it as in help the younger generation get on the property ladder. BTW I have a house.

House or flat??

You have no idea how private pensions work. They are not paid by the government. The government pay 137 a week (I think). Private pensions are paid by the company/employees and they pay into a fund.

Yes, there are tax breaks for paying in.
Yes there used to be final salary pensions - however these have mostly be phased out due to cost. Defined benefit

Now we are more likely to have it based on how big your pot is (what you have paid in) defined contribution.

I worked in pensions previously, but am a little rusty.

[quote Fancymice]@knittingaddict I know there are some people these days that fritter money and consequently can't buy a house, but there are others, like me & my partner, who live frugally and still can't afford a house. Most of our furniture is second hand, all appliances we've had to buy are the cheapest we can get, we never go abroad and have had one holiday in the past three years, we don't drink at all apart from Xmas, we don't smoke, we eat cheap food (everything from scratch, lentils featuring heavily) and yet home ownership is not possible. We also both have a second part time job. The sheer amount we pay in rent takes a huge chunk of money, and makes it very hard to save. In contrast, my dad at my age has a mortgage on his own for a small flat in the south east and then met my mum and they were able to move in a few years into a 3 bed semi in the south West. My dad worked in a factory and my mum was a nurse, in a comparable job skill levels to me and dp now. They had to live frugally because of interest rates, but at least they had the opportunity to be property owners despite being working class. Now in their 60s they have paid off the mortgage. I feel like for my generation, even if we do everything right on paper and go to university and work hard it's still not enough to accomplish having a decent standard of living owning your own home. I know it's anecdotal, but personally, I feel like gen x and millenials have been dealt a bad hand.

I'm not saying I agree with the OPs novel ideas for wealth redistribution, but it gets very tiresome sometimes the trope that we're just not trying hard enough.[/quote]
I appreciate all that. My daughter has just bought her first home with her partner. It would have taken her longer if we hadn't been in a position to gift them some money.

What I was demonstrating was that we had to work for our step onto the property ladder too. It wasn't handed it to us on a plate, which is what people like the op always seem to think happened. We've lived through the 15% plus interests rates and negative equity and many didn't keep the houses they had worked so hard for.

I just hate threads like this which pitch one generation against another. We had no help from our parents to buy our own homes, but we have helped our children to do so. We aren't evil people and yet these threads keep coming.

I hate the generational arguments too. People who are entitled to a good old style final salary scheme are fortunate compared to most who follow them but they haven't done anything wrong and don't deserve the anger.

[quote Fancymice]@saraclara I am 30, and am enrolled in the nest pension scheme. The fact that it is mandatory that it is offered to all employers makes me firmly beleive that when it is my time to retire there will no longer be a state pension.

OP, I don't understand the pure venom of some of these responses. I think it is misdirected to think current pensioners should receive less, but I understand the frustration with the clear intergenerational inequality in this country that a lot of people refuse to believe exists.

To be honest, I am jealous of people in the boomer generation. All I want is to own my own home to have some feeling of security, but sadly it's a pipe dream on my current earnings. Neither of my parents were proffessionals, but they bought a house. Me and my partner rarely go on holiday, eat out about twice a year and run a small cheap old car and are a million miles away from being able to buy, so it isn't a life of hedonistic luxury preventing us.[/quote]
Thanks for explaining your situation. It's similar for me and I'm in my 30's - I buy second hand stuff as much as I can, don't go on holidays abroad, buy expensive phones (just like the good old days), but when this is explained on these forums you just get told we buy too many luxury lifestyle items and eat too many avocados by ignorant people. The statistics speak for themselves and tell the story well, people's opinions don't. Instagram and Facebook are not real life, just a snap shot of it.

Our rent/housing is ridiculously high compared to salaries that have stagnated. We are in the top 3 for most expensive childcare in the world. Not amount of not buying avocados or lipstick will make a dent in that. I think many young people have just given up as having a secure home as it is unattainable. Eating well and taking care of yourself a bit might mean you are less likely to have years of poor health in old age and be reliant on the state, so young people are focusing on that as a means of protecting themselves in old age.

My pension invests my contributions into global index shares and the payout is profit from years of long term investment. Why would someone invest for 40 Years and not enjoy the dividends?

YABU
He's paid in & deserves his payout.

Some folks planned well, got a bit lucky in some respects, minded their money sensibly.

My Dad has a workplace pension (local government).

He retired at 55.
He now gets significantly more from his work pension each week than he got in salary when he worked there, as it goes up each year.
And he gets his state pension.
His outgoings would be low if he didn't have a ridiculous house that eats money that none of us can face moving him out of.

I won't have the opportunity he had, I never could have, he retired in the early 90's when things were very lucrative indeed for folk in the right sectors.

Some folk get lucky, others not so much, thats life! He's also lived to be 80, I certainly won't achieve that either.

Being jealous and arsey about someone elses better fortune really does you no favours at all.

For all the OP knows the neighbour might have paid in AVCs to his occupational pension on top of the normal contributions. Why should he miss out?

@NoSquirrels

This was a good question from ajandjj

OP - say you save into an interest-bearing account, how would you feel if someone came along when you were about to retire and said there was more money in there than you needed, so decided to take some to distribute to others.

Would you be happy with that?

Third time’s a charm, Blindering.
Any thoughts on @ajandjjmum original think-piece poser?

---

I came back (sad as I am!) to see if OP had answered, but no, she's still frothing about the unjustice without considering the wider picture. She'll grow up.

To those struggling to get a foot on the ladder, I genuinely have sympathy. Times have changed and we all need a bit of luck in life. But that luck shouldn't come through stealing off those who have saved.

@Whycangirlsbesonasty

Can I also add that having invested into a civil service pension scheme and a state scheme, the amount you as an employee pay in vs the amount you get out, the civil service scheme is about 3 x s more generous. So yes you do pay into a civil service scheme, but the amount you pay in is fairly pitiful compared to the amount you would have to pay in to get the same benefit in a defined contribution scheme.

That’s a balanced decision that people make though. The civil service pays less than private sector, but the pension was better. So an active choice and plan that people made to have less in their pocket while working, but better later on.

*injustice

That’s a balanced decision that people make though.
The civil service pays less than private sector, but the pension was better. So an active choice and plan that people made to have less in their pocket while working, but better later on.

That's exactly the point, and the point when it comes to changing future benefits. In most cases, with the exception of retirement age, most changes are not made to already accrued benefits - they're made to future benefits.If your employer announces a change to your scheme then you re-evaluate your future plans to take that in to consideration; is the scheme still worth investing in or should you opt out and go for a personal scheme (this is rarely wise), is it now better to change jobs to get a better base salary so you can invest independently, or to an employer with a better scheme, and so on.

The lack of time travel means that those decisions can't be made for benefits which have already accrued.

then how come massive amounts of the younger generations can't afford their own house?
What is this obsession with owning a house? It is not a human right you know. And all these 70+ year olds you know without mortgages and all the younger people you know who have managed to buy property - where do you think that is going in the end? It's going to the generations below. There are many more "inheritors" than there used to be from my observation (sadly not me)