To think that emotional immaturity (adults) always includes lack of confidence?

[LBirch02]

Morning mumsnetters. OK, overall I’m in a much happier place than I’ve ever been. However I’m trying to process my abusive upbringing so that I can give myself adequate self care and ‘live my best life’ - sorry I know that’s a phrase all of us know and love

So exactly as it is in the title - does emotional immaturity automatically include a lack of confidence? I think it does

I'm not sure - I'm thinking of people who are wildly over confident and/or vastly overestimate their own abilities.

Depends. Sometimes. Though from my experience with people who I think are emotionally immature, they seem to be over-confident to the point of arrogance

Thanks for your responses but don’t you think overconfidence = immaturity?

Often that 'overconfidence' is someone actually making the fact they have very low self esteem.

Agreed. My mum seems to have an ‘in your face’ personality so not the typical person you’d think would lack confidence- however to cut a long story short one of her ex colleagues said she lacked confidence and it’s something I’ve always thought

Not at all.I can think of some enormously immature, but wildly confident adults — I would say that one of the aspects of their immaturity is that they don’t realise how limited their actual abilities are.

Mushtullo - I knew someone who people might think of as ‘wildly confident’ but had a need to dominate others and got visibly annoyed if he found he couldn’t. I would call this lack of confidence actually

An ex of mine was emotionally unavailable, told me he had no confidence in himself until his 40s. He's now late 50s and myself and others would describe him as arrogant and a know-it-all now.

@LBirch02

Mushtullo - I knew someone who people might think of as ‘wildly confident’ but had a need to dominate others and got visibly annoyed if he found he couldn’t. I would call this lack of confidence actually

That’s not what I mean — I mean people who genuinely think they’re insanely talented at what they do, for instance, and have an inflated sense of their own talents, while blithely regarding bad performance reviews, failure to progress beyond probation etc.

I agree with you.
I think some arrogant people are very good at putting on a show of confidence but deep down they are very insecure and unsure of themselves.

Not necessarily, I don't think.

My sister is very confident in herself (looks wise, socially, in her career - rightly so), but she's not emotionally mature: she doesn't consider others' feelings, is dismissive of negative feedback or criticism as she doesn't believe it applies, struggles to maintain relationships because she doesn't like/think she should have to compromise/have discussions etc. Those are all things I'd class as a sign of emotional maturity - being able to compromise, have difficult conversations without shutting them down or not hearing the other person's point, being willing to accept and understand criticism.

She has excellent qualities too! But she is very emotionally immature, without that lack of self-confidence.

I think the biggest sign of emotional maturity is properly, really understanding your own emotions: the things that trigger you, the things that you need from other people and what you have to offer emotionally in return, the abililty to pinpoint how you feel and why and manage that. And I agree that with that would come confidence.

Mushtullo ah - see what you mean now

Totally agree Biolo

scarpa ah interesting - your sister sounds like my mum - great professionally and well presented looks wise but behind closed doors has emotional meltdowns, drank constantly although family didn’t like it, and realistically, poor quality relationships. People including myself could see through her ‘full on’ exterior though and thought she lacked confidence

Nope. My sister's husband is really emotionally immature yet ver arrogant.

I get what you mean but I think there are a lot of people like that.

@LBirch02

scarpa ah interesting - your sister sounds like my mum - great professionally and well presented looks wise but behind closed doors has emotional meltdowns, drank constantly although family didn’t like it, and realistically, poor quality relationships. People including myself could see through her ‘full on’ exterior though and thought she lacked confidence

I guess it depends how you define confidence too! My sister quite rightly knows she is drop dead gorgeous (like, people stop her on the street gorgeous) and excellent at her job and at ease in social situations - so she's confident in those things.

But whether that confidence is masking insecurity on a deeper level: maybe. She is quite insecure in relationships nowadays, for example, because she's just so bad at communicating and compromising that she now assumes other people will 'inexplicably' leave (ironically, because of her confidence that she is never wrong nor should accept any criticism). It makes me sad for her - she has half the ingredients for happiness, in that she has the capacity to just be comfortable in herself and her convictions (if not sometimes to a fault), but she doesn't have the maturity to be able to balance it out.

* My sister is very confident in herself (looks wise, socially, in her career - rightly so), but she's not emotionally mature: she doesn't consider others' feelings, is dismissive of negative feedback or criticism as she doesn't believe it applies, struggles to maintain relationships because she doesn't like/think she should have to compromise/have discussions etc. Those are all things I'd class as a sign of emotional maturity - being able to compromise, have difficult conversations without shutting them down or not hearing the other person's point, being willing to accept and understand criticism.*

You are basically viewing an alpha personality from an omega perspective. My own sister describes me like you have done - but I am happy and successful precisely because I rarely compromise on what I want or my goals. I don’t have long protracted discussions to find out what went wrong or how I can meet someone in the middle of every argument. When I truly believe in something I focus my energies on influencing the other person to my way of thinking.

Different way of thinking / problem solving.

@Ozanj

* My sister is very confident in herself (looks wise, socially, in her career - rightly so), but she's not emotionally mature: she doesn't consider others' feelings, is dismissive of negative feedback or criticism as she doesn't believe it applies, struggles to maintain relationships because she doesn't like/think she should have to compromise/have discussions etc. Those are all things I'd class as a sign of emotional maturity - being able to compromise, have difficult conversations without shutting them down or not hearing the other person's point, being willing to accept and understand criticism.*

You are basically viewing an alpha personality from an omega perspective. My own sister describes me like you have done - but I am happy and successful precisely because I rarely compromise on what I want or my goals. I don’t have long protracted discussions to find out what went wrong or how I can meet someone in the middle of every argument. When I truly believe in something I focus my energies on influencing the other person to my way of thinking.

Different way of thinking / problem solving.

That's an interesting way of looking at it. I'm sure the world needs people like that as much as it needs people who are willing to get into the murkiness of balancing emotional needs and giving a little.

But I think there needs to be a balance.

Compromise is not weakness or lack of ambition - sometimes it's necessary or kind or both.

In a slightly-edited-for-anonymity version of my sister's example, her fiance wanted to move from City A to City B (about 3 hours' move, closer to all families involved) for a huge promotion in his fairly niche line of work. Sister is self-employed, clients internationally, can work anywhere. She said no, she wanted City A (fair enough, of course) and that was that. She refused to entertain a discussion, a compromise, anything. Just 'no', because why should she compromise and not be true to what she wanted? She might have got her goal of staying in the city she wanted by refusing to compromise, but it was the end of their relationship and she was heartbroken. Couldn't possibly understand why he was so unreasonable as to move anyway and end things - she lacked the emotional maturity or insight to realise that her refusal to even discuss the matter made the man she wanted to marry feel as though his opinion was unimportant.

To me, emotional maturity in the event that she was absolutely unwilling to move would have been to explain her reasons to him, understand if he wasn't willing to change his mind either, and accept that that might mean the end of their relationship.

But she couldn't do that.

So I don't think - in her case, anyway - it's being 'alpha' and putting her own goals first, because it didn't make her happy. What would have made her happy is getting her fiance to agree to her version of events, and she couldn't achieve that because she wasn't even willing to discuss it or give him a reason, she just said "This is what I want, take it or leave it". That's not emotional maturity, that's stubbornness and failure to consider the consequences of her actions.

I don't think anyone ever attains consistent emotional maturity, I think we all have our triggers.
In those moments, are our triggers linked to a lack of confidence? Probably.
It's a lifetime's work in progress for all of us I reckon. You just have to try your best to be calm and reasonable one day at a time.
Today, I've been especially irritable and probably felt low about myself due to a bad night's sleep. If the nytol works tonight, I will be a Saint tomorrow I expect!