To think the reason UK holidays can be shit is not the weather but the traffic?

[MrsBede]

....and it's much worse this year?

I went from the Midlands to North Wales a couple of weeks ago and it took twice as long as it should have both there and back. Just got back from London and it took about 90 minutes longer than it should have. For both these trips it wasn't just one delay, but several unrelated ones - for the former every step of the journey pretty much had long delays. For London it's just the M1 - that was slow going there for a long stretch and on the way back my SAtnav recommended a detour and that had delays too.

As well as this, my city is being dug up here there and everywhere - I can think of about 5 different local routes that all have roadworks on them and ensuing delays - one was the bloody slip road when I finally got off the motorway today!

It just spoils everything - we're going to Hampshire for a few days next week and the thought that the 3.5 hour trip is likely to be more like 6 is really putting me off and I half feel like cancelling, which is very unlike me indeed. I certainly expect some delays when going longish distances but AIBU to think this year has been worse than ever, and it's not fair! (Yes, I'm tired and very pissed off...)

@Lockheart

Yes *@icedcoffees*, and I literally said in my post that there will be some people for whom cars are, in the absence of proper infrastructure, necessary, so I'm not sure why you're arguing with me when I agree with you.

Yes, I know.

I'm not really arguing either - I'm just sick of comments (not really from you, just in general) about how all car users are lazy or selfish or don't care about the environment.

Make public transport a cheap, practical and viable alternative, then we can start can start talking about calling people lazy and selfish.

@FangsForTheMemory

The irony of someone complaining about traffic when they are driving themselves. YOU are the problem, OP.

No, the problem is mostly down to two things. First, badly designed junctions and secondly road works.

Re the first, road layouts/junctions are supposed to be designed by highly qualified/educated/experienced road planners, but in lots of cases, a local can do better and can see as soon as they open what the problems will be. We have a new by pass, there's a whopping great roundabout in the middle - yes, there's a junction, so fair enough, but they've "offset" the roundabout so there's virtually a 90 degree entrance to it, like a T junction, which has led to literally dozens of accidents - apparently it's a "radical new design" to slow down traffic - well it doesn't - it causes crashes!

Second, road works take far too long. Lanes are coned off for months with nothing happening. Yes, I know things are complicated. But if you know that an overhead gantry is going to take 6 months to arrive, take the sodding cones away whilst waiting for it! Even short jobs, like cutting the grass in the central reservation - the outer lanes are closed for several days before and several days after - just why? Better planning could make a massive difference to reducing the pollution, wasted time, and additional danger of protracted road works and lane closures.

Even if the infrastructure was there it still wouldn’t work for everyone who lives rurally, even if buses ran every 5 mins they wouldn’t take me to every patient I have on my caseload some of which live in the hills. There have been posters on mumsnet that think cars will all just disappear eventually that’s not going to happen

@AfternoonToffee

Have a short break in your own county.

I don't live in a county, how would that work?

As for the train, my parents went from the Midlands to Devon, they came back last weekend, over-run engineering works meant that trains were cancelled, they had a nightmare getting back, (including buses, trains to locations they didn't want to be) so trains are not always the answer.

Unless you don’t live in the UK,l... of course you live in a county

@lannistunut

I'm sick of the car bashing posts on threads like this

Cars are a real problem though, but drivers need to not take it personally - I am not bashing YOU, but I do genuinely consider cars and the volume of traffic to be a negative overall, they choke cities, impact health, damage the environment, use a lot of resources.

Your car is not you, it is an object. There are too many cars, too much traffic. I think almost all of our neighbourhoods would be nicer if we could halve the number of cars overnight.

Yep, cars are a massive problem - I don't disagree.

But until there are viable alternatives, they're not just going to vanish overnight. People still need to get to work and school. My choice used to be a 40 minute car journey vs a 5 hour journey by public transport.

Why would anyone choose the latter, even if it was practical? Which it wasn't, oddly enough

@TheMoth

And public transport in Wales is shit. You can tootle up and down the coast road on a bus, but if you want to go to Cheshire oaks (20 minutes by car), you have to take a bus to a different town (30 minutes plus), then change (another 30 minutes plus).

I think I worked out that if I had to get to work by public transport, it would take me 2 hours. Not including childminder drop off.

I grew up in Prestatyn and as a teenager would often get the bus to Chester as I had a free pass due to a close family member being and employee. It would take me 2 hours!! In the car it takes 30 mins and even less in the train.

@eekbumbler

Have a short break in your own county.

Mmm I love the Midlands in summer. We are as far from the coast as is possible. No seaside this year kids, it's ruining the planet. Who fancies popping to Coventry?

Ooh stop moaning, pop into your local city centre. If you’re lucky they’ll be a tiny ‘beach’ set up with a patch of pissed in sand set up for little kids and toddlers.

And if you’re in the Mids, you are close to Center Parcs Notts and even MK. They both have a ‘beach’.

Who goes on weekend trips every weekend?

Days out then.

I take my kids out every weekend. Sometimes it's to nans (12 min drive or 1.45 hours on public transport), sometimes to a National Trust (not the most public transport friendly places).

I live around 30 miles as the crow flies from central London.

About 3.5 miles from the nearest town and 2.5 miles from the next village where the closest shop is and where the Drs happen to be. Unless it's their day to hold surgery in the next, next village 6 miles away.

DC get a bus to secondary until 6th form and then despite it being compulsory to stay on, the service ends. Public buses are intermittent and unreliable.

You don't have to live in the back of beyond for life to become very difficult without a vehicle.

mrswaltermitty
I had a row with the plaid election candidate over this.
"We're going to improve transport links to South Wales. "
What for? Like I'm going to travel 5 hours for a night out in Cardiff! I just want to be able to get to the nearest cities in England more easily.

Strategic ignore of the train prices vs car ownership for a year!

Agree with the posters saying sort out the infrastructure before telling off people who do 'short' car journeys.

Time poor people really struggle with public transport.

@lannistunut

Stop driving everywhere, your car is part of the problem.

This. maybe consider train + rental bikes or rental car at location.

@lannistunut

I live somewhere with ordinary (and v pricey) public transport links, low income and public transport/walking is fine for us

Our choices have evolved in different ways, e.g. we picked swimming lessons a over swimming lessons b due to travel time, but these are choices people with cars also make - can I park there, how bad is the traffic getting to this place vs that place.

Some of the peripheral benefits have been good too, my kids are moving all the time, I am definitely healthier than when I was in my car.

It was daunting to give it up, but it has been a good decision for us.

But outside the major cities, most people wouldn't have a choice of 2 swimming lessons - there'd be 1 and almost certainly it wouldn't be on a direct bus route from your house! For my DS when he was young, they were in the next town, and there was only a once every two hour bus route there and back, so it would have pretty much taken all day for a 1 hour lesson. Or it was a 10 minute drive by car.

By all means, those in cities with good public transport shouldn't be using cars extensively, but in lots of smaller cities, towns and villages, the public transport infrastructure just isn't there. From my village, I can get an hourly bus service to town A or a 2 hourly to town B. Nothing at all to the local retail parks, industrial estates etc.,, which would necessitate a bus into the bus station of town A or B and then another bus out again. And when bus frequency is typically 1 or 2 hourly, and of course, they don't "connect" timewise, it's not uncommon to be sat at the bus station for an hour too! My DS went to secondary school on the outskirts of town A, he had to leave the house at 7.15 to be at school for 9.00 start, and it's only a 8 mile journey!

That's the reality of public transport outside the major cities. And that's just time-wise. Cost wise they are very expensive - for me and OH to get the bus to town and back, just 8 miles, it's a fiver each. So £10. Petrol and parking is far cheaper! Not everyone has the cheap subsidised public transport enjoyed by Londoners!

We don’t have an affordable or effective public transport system to avoid taking the car! (And I was part of a campaigning group two years ago to stop the only bus in our village being taken away!) Our two holidays this year, we have used the bus when we could to visit places. But we need the car to actually get to our holiday destination. And the traffic has been terrible.

@MargaretThursday

Travel at off times. That's what we do. So we leave between 10pm and 4am depending on where the traffic is likely to be bad etc.

That way you almost always go straight through, the dc think it's exciting, and you can eat breakfast on the way.

It's better than leaving at 2am for your flight which includes 2hrs sitting around in the airport....

We do this. And you have the added bonus that the kids often fall asleep so there’s no arguments in the back

But until there are viable alternatives, they're not just going to vanish overnight. I don't think they are going to vanish overnight, but my view is car-bashing is fine, because cars and traffic are shit.

Like all changes, until you have enough people in the population who would like to see change, change won't happen. The oil and automotive lobbies are strong. We need more people to want the change before we will get any change.

Talking openly about how much cars negatively affect our neighbourhoods, our health, our children's heath is part of moving towards that change.

The thing is even if fantastic bus services were put on in rural areas they would still
Take too long to get to a lot of the places people need to be for work/school/appointments etc so still not really a total answer

@lannistunut but that sounds like you’re saying you want no one to have a car at all? That’s the posters I’m on about

@TheMoth

mrswaltermitty I had a row with the plaid election candidate over this. "We're going to improve transport links to South Wales. " What for? Like I'm going to travel 5 hours for a night out in Cardiff! I just want to be able to get to the nearest cities in England more easily.

It’s just so daft! If you want to travel from N Wales to S Wales have to leave Wales get there 🤣

I don’t live there anymore but my mum does and her biggest bugbear during lockdown was that she could go anywhere in Wales... Cardiff if she liked, which is 200 of miles away. But could go to her nearest city Chester 31 miles away because it was in England

My arse hasn't recovered from the 7.5 hours it took from the South Coast to Lancashire three weeks ago. I agree, it was very busy and we left at 7am.

For those suggesting public transport, it is an option for some, and I'd prefer to have gone by train and hired a car there. It would have been lovely for us to all sit together, chatting and relaxing instead of looking at the SatNav going up and up. We looked into to the train and the cost was astronomical. We couldn't have afforded it.

As for those saying, 'get rid of cars'. It simply isn't as simple. I live within the realm of Andy Burnham and his public transport plans. Again, I would be happy to use public transport to go to the city if it was safe, cost effective and reliable. The train is about OK, but they stop at 11pm, the trams are not safe at night and I am already paying for my safe and reliable car. There are also points on many routes where you are liable to get stuck at random points, either a broken down tram or bus/train that stops part way to your destination. Say one town over and you've not realised due to similar times/numbers. Then you're stuck for two hours or you have a four mile walk. I have walked from Salford Quays to the centre of Manchester because the trams have suddenly stopped more times than I care to remember, now, nothing will get me on a tram.

I live in a tourist hot spot and this summer I’ve had to allow 20 mins extra to get to the supermarket. Yesterday I thought I would go super early to avoid typical Friday traffic. Set off at 6:10. Took me 35 minutes longer than usual.

@Wheretoeattweenandteen

Yep!

I was shocked when we went through a phase of starting to drive abroad, so so much quieter once hit French soil or Netherlands, Brussels..

I love driving in France, at least once you're away from the cities.

A friend and I drove to Gascony and back a few years ago. There was one bit of autoroute where we didn't see another vehicle for so long, we started to wonder if we'd inadvertently strayed onto a section that wasn't officially open yet.

Drive in France is a dream. We used to drive from Cherbourg to west coast Brittany or the vendee in July/August and it was as though we’d gone back to the 50s.

The trains in france are also far superior

Trains aren’t always a viable alternative in this country. Routes are hot and miss and the prices can be more than flights. Plus if you’re self catering you need a car load.