To think the reason UK holidays can be shit is not the weather but the traffic?

[MrsBede]

....and it's much worse this year?

I went from the Midlands to North Wales a couple of weeks ago and it took twice as long as it should have both there and back. Just got back from London and it took about 90 minutes longer than it should have. For both these trips it wasn't just one delay, but several unrelated ones - for the former every step of the journey pretty much had long delays. For London it's just the M1 - that was slow going there for a long stretch and on the way back my SAtnav recommended a detour and that had delays too.

As well as this, my city is being dug up here there and everywhere - I can think of about 5 different local routes that all have roadworks on them and ensuing delays - one was the bloody slip road when I finally got off the motorway today!

It just spoils everything - we're going to Hampshire for a few days next week and the thought that the 3.5 hour trip is likely to be more like 6 is really putting me off and I half feel like cancelling, which is very unlike me indeed. I certainly expect some delays when going longish distances but AIBU to think this year has been worse than ever, and it's not fair! (Yes, I'm tired and very pissed off...)

I understand. It's not a break, you aren't getting away if it's not a different place. I don't get the appeal of the above suggestions of going within your own county.

I try to drive at non busy times. I used to do M25 to Torquay in about 3 hours, I left at 6am. Now it'd take 5.

We manage M25 to Dorset for our caravan in 2 hours, just by picking ds's up from school at 3pm. I've known it to take people 4+ hours. No thanks.

@Hercisback

I don't have to hide my opinions because some people don't understand them. Nothing would ever change if we did that!

You could express them better and with less of the superiority.

If public transport was good, reliable and not stupidly expensive it would be used. London is a great example of this.

You could express them better That is a superior comment in itself.

I don't consider myself to be superior, I just say what I think. I think my area would be better if people drove less and my hypothesis is that for many people that would be do-able.

For anyone who drives a car, either:

1. They don't think there is a reason to limit their driving
2. They do think there is a reason to limit their driving but can't
3. They do think there is a reason to limit their driving (more than they currently are) but opt not to

Different journeys are in different categories, we all live in a free country and have the right to make that assessment for ourselves currently.

Oh they so do!

@purplesequins

tbh most people here are not talking about getting rid of the car in most cases but about reducing their use.

for journeys up to 5 miles consider taking the bike instead. if you go at 'dutch speed' there is no need to have a shower either end. campain for safe bike routes.
up to one mile is a good walking distance.

calculate what a car costs us (including parking, insurance, maintenance, petrol, tax, etc)
compared to train/bus tickets, taxi in emergencies, bike service.
it might be cheaper than owning a car and not much less convenient.

I think it’s more a time thing than effort. Whenever parking in town is raised the majority of people want free parking for 30 minutes because they are “ just nipping in”. Which suggests they want to be in and out and possibly are already in a car .

People like being able to achieve several things in a day - work, going into town, seeing friends, dropping stuff off. Without a car it’s often just not possible.

However because a Saturday in my town is often rammed it’s actually quicker to walk 15 mins in than drive down, wait at the lights, let people out and drive round to find a space. So I’m better off walking. Why wouldn’t people do what’s most convenient for them?

People like being able to achieve several things in a day - work, going into town, seeing friends, dropping stuff off. Without a car it’s often just not possible.

This is definitely what changed when I got rid of the car. My life is way better how it is arranged now, but it was scary making that change. I gave up being able to think 'I'll just do x on the way back from doing y'.

If the train network were better and reasonably priced this wouldn’t be such an issue. I am INCENSED that travel by train is often 3-4 times more expensive than travel by car. Lunacy.

People like being able to achieve several things in a day - work, going into town, seeing friends, dropping stuff off. Without a car it’s often just not possible.

In many cases, I think it's also necessary to be able do multiple things.

So, the journey from home to school may only be half a mile (and walkable), but when you then need to be at work 8 miles away, 15 minutes after drop-off - it's just not possible time-wise to walk back home, get the car, and then drive to the office.

Add in multiple school runs, needing to go to the supermarket on the way home, GP appointments in the next town over, the dentist - it's often impossible to do that on foot around a full-time job.

If you live somewhere where everything is within 10 minutes walk of everything else, you're very lucky (and probably fairly well-off, as living in well-connected places isn't cheap).

Living rurally is generally cheaper (so many people buy there as they can't afford to go elsewhere) but the pay-off is that the majority of people then need a car to get around as public transport and cycle routes are practically non-existent.

tbh children should be able to walk half a mile (up to a mile really) to school and home on their own from a certain age.

what has happened in the uk that that's not possible anymore. that's really sad actually.

I suspect the UK tourism industry will never recover from this Summer's peak. There'll be so many people who'll say "never again" and head off abroad in future.

Yes, the UK has some brilliant tourist destinations, attractions, etc., but it's just not geared up to high numbers of people anymore because people have been going abroad for the past 30-40 years. In it's heyday, the UK was geared up for mass tourism, i.e. lots of "special" trains to the seaside resorts, now many seaside resorts simply don't have the railway infrastructure, i.e. closed stations, fewer platforms, shorter platforms, etc. Hence for may, car travel being the only feasible means of transport.

@purplesequins

tbh children should be able to walk half a mile (up to a mile really) to school and home on their own from a certain age.

what has happened in the uk that that's not possible anymore. that's really sad actually.

Yes, it's sad that so many "village" schools have closed, so that a car journey is needed from lots of smaller villages to larger villages or towns with schools.

@purplesequins

tbh children should be able to walk half a mile (up to a mile really) to school and home on their own from a certain age.

what has happened in the uk that that's not possible anymore. that's really sad actually.

I just think when you have a car, it is easy to just 'pop and do that in the car'. I used to get picked up loads of times when I didn't really need to.

Getting rid of it was actually quite disorientating.

We're going to Edinburgh in October, we've had it planned for around 6 months. I've been checking train prices for the last 4 months and the cheapest is £175 PER PERSON. I could fly for £58 per person. I wanted to take the train, avoid the long long drive but at those prices I just can't afford it. We will drive as I figure that's better for the environment that flying.

@purplesequins

tbh children should be able to walk half a mile (up to a mile really) to school and home on their own from a certain age.

what has happened in the uk that that's not possible anymore. that's really sad actually.

If the route is along pavements with lollipop ladies to help with road crossings, then yes, most children aged 8/9+ should be able to manage the journey just fine.

But if the route to school is along 60mph roads/country lanes with no pavements, and the only alternative is a muddy path through a field or woodland, then no, it's probably not a route that's safe for 12 year olds, let alone primary aged kids.

And even if the children CAN walk, if the parent has to drive past the school to get to work anyway, it's generally quicker and easier to bundle everyone in the car. The car is doing the journey anyway, so I can't get worked up about the parents stopping at school on the way.

Yes, it's sad that so many "village" schools have closed, so that a car journey is needed from lots of smaller villages to larger villages or towns with schools.

Definitely.

Our small rural town has one high school but it's not big enough to take everyone from the town and surrounding villages. If you don't get in there, the nearest option is 17 miles away down rural country lanes.

We have primary schools within walking distance, which is good, but if you live in the surrounding villages, the only way of getting to school is car (or school bus) as there's no pavements and no route other than along the side of a 60mph windy country road.

Have you looked at the various railcard options @showmethegin?

railcards.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk/content/termsconditions.aspx?r=TST&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1ryNgu3B8gIVb4BQBh3NpQ2sEAAYASAAEgLywfD_BwE

thanks for the Wales advice.

For anyone interested in trains, the pre/post Beeching train map is fascinating/horrifying. www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/538320961681778451/
imagine all those tracks not with great long trains but just with little electric carriages tootling along constantly. It would be a very different world.

@showmethegin

We're going to Edinburgh in October, we've had it planned for around 6 months. I've been checking train prices for the last 4 months and the cheapest is £175 PER PERSON. I could fly for £58 per person. I wanted to take the train, avoid the long long drive but at those prices I just can't afford it. We will drive as I figure that's better for the environment that flying.

Thing is that the UK railway network is pretty much at full capacity in lots of places. Trains are often full anyway. Some lines/stations/junctions are already too busy to put more trains on. Station platforms are often too short for longer trains.

We've had a few decades of winding down the railway network, and it will take a decade or two to start expanding it again. New trains take a few years to design, order, train staff, etc. New lines and junction improvements takes years to plan and build.

It's not just a matter of adding carriages. Most trains now are in fixed formations. There are no compatible spare carriages sat in sidings waiting. A 2 platform long station can't accommodate a 3 or 4 carriage train as trains need modification to only allow doors in certain carriages to open.

Reducing prices would just make the network too busy, cause unsafe overcrowding, etc.

Of course, the railway system should never have been wound down so much, but at the time, decades ago, it was losing massive amounts of money due to low numbers of passengers, loss of goods traffic to lorries, etc. It's been "scaling back up" now for a decade or so, decisions made 10 years ago re longer trains, new stations, etc are now coming to fruition - that's the timescale! Today, we know more trains are needed, new stations, longer platforms, but it'll be 2030 before today's decisions are implemented.

@icedcoffees

Yes, it's sad that so many "village" schools have closed, so that a car journey is needed from lots of smaller villages to larger villages or towns with schools.

Definitely.

Our small rural town has one high school but it's not big enough to take everyone from the town and surrounding villages. If you don't get in there, the nearest option is 17 miles away down rural country lanes.

We have primary schools within walking distance, which is good, but if you live in the surrounding villages, the only way of getting to school is car (or school bus) as there's no pavements and no route other than along the side of a 60mph windy country road.

The trouble with school buses/bus passes is that it's very expensive for parents with 2 or more kids. Then it becomes a lot cheaper to put them all in the car together rather than paying for 2 or 3 bus passes, which are often a few hundred pounds per person!

While I agree that there are too many cars and drivers in our overcrowded nation we simply don't have the public transport infrastructure for many people to ditch their cars. Also, with so many companies closing down their smaller branches of offices to locate to one huge office on a trading estate with poor public transport people still need their cars to commute.

I recently spent a few days at DD's flat in Newcastle and averaged about 5 miles a day walking, just to get to places and to and from the metro. Where we live (rural) I walk 5 miles if I want to specifically go for a walk. For everything else I need my car.

Re going on holiday by train. Again with the lack of rail services to many parts of the country wouldn't all towns and cities with rail links be even more crowded?

@superram

I’ve just been to Devon from London on the train, it was virtually empty-lovely!

Yes it's too expensive for anyone else!

With regards to walking to school, children grow. I definitely needed a car when DS was at nursery to drop him off and get to work on time. He didn’t need one for primary after Yr4 or for secondary.
Now he goes to college the train and buses are terrible. Takes an hour and half for a 20 min car journey. He’s been on a broken down bus, taken to a town miles away and trains are delayed a lot. I’ve had to come to rescue him at least three times and he wasn’t even in that much.

I recently spent a few days at DD's flat in Newcastle and averaged about 5 miles a day walking, just to get to places and to and from the metro. This is a key positive of not having a car, our model of driving everywhere then doing something to mitigate it is not working that well.

The trouble with school buses/bus passes is that it's very expensive for parents with 2 or more kids. Then it becomes a lot cheaper to put them all in the car together rather than paying for 2 or 3 bus passes, which are often a few hundred pounds per person!

I definitely agree with you. Plus, if parents have to the past the school anyway, what's the point in paying for a bus or making them walk in the rain?

I think a lot of people judge people who drive the school run but they have no idea what those drivers are off to do afterwards.

I like to live somewhere I can do my basic errands (top up food shops, post office, bank, pharmacy, drs) without the car). I pretty well always do this unless I need to buy something bulky or heavy!

Main supermarket shop will always be a car job until the deliveries are smarter and less rubbish at stock levels, dates and substitutions.

School (Scotland) has very few parents driving unless they have to be somewhere else on a very tight deadline. We have still got staggered drop off with my DC's class at 9.05 which is tight for many who work as well as a fair few toddler activities!

Going to London next week, me and 3 children. Taking the train instead of driving as a "treat". £130 return. Expensive treat.

Will be offset as staying with family and not planning on doing touristy things but still, it's ridiculous and completely unaffordable for many.

But I agree with the main OP that the traffic this year has been crap in holiday destinations. Feeling a bit of a mug that we decided to stay in UK due to faff of tests etc.