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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to support extinction rebellion - more London action tomorrow

996 replies

54321nought · 19/08/2021 23:40

I am not sure what, but I have seen their previous demonstrations, and support their cause.

We were given badges at one event, and travelled home on public transport wearing them, and received absolutely nothing but 100% support from other travellers, which was nice, as I expected some hostility, publicly wearing their badges while roads in London were closed by them

OP posts:
LoislovesStewie · 21/08/2021 14:01

54321nought whatever does that have to do with the price of fish? Your comments are becoming increasingly erratic. I've met homeless people, in my work, who claimed to have a title. They were either liars or had serious and enduring mental health issues. None of this has anything to do with working class people of my generation going to university, because most didn't.
Apologies I couldn't leave those comments unanswered.

Hypnoshiding · 21/08/2021 14:04

It really isn't in any dispute

It really, really is.

Original poster
54321nought · 21/08/2021 14:11

well, I am going to join them, as soon as I am retired.

I was brought up in a council house, I was homeless as a teenager. I am dyslexic and dyspraxic

I have worked for 15 years as a research scientist, and a total of 30 years as a teacher.

I am a single mum and raised my children alone

I went without meals regularly for years to pay mortgage and child care

I have no savings,

I am prepared to make the sacrifice, and yes, being prepared to remain on a protest 24/7 whatever the weather, being prepared to be arrested and charged, paying legal fees and facing prison time is a huge sacrifice.

The movement is largely made up of people like me, retired, professional, understand that the government is leading us into total disaster, prepared to make the sacrifices to do something about it

And by the way, I wash twice a day!

OP posts:
Original poster
54321nought · 21/08/2021 14:14

@LoislovesStewie

54321nought whatever does that have to do with the price of fish? Your comments are becoming increasingly erratic. I've met homeless people, in my work, who claimed to have a title. They were either liars or had serious and enduring mental health issues. None of this has anything to do with working class people of my generation going to university, because most didn't. Apologies I couldn't leave those comments unanswered.
it is not a case of "claim" to have, if I am working with getting an individual housed, I have their personal information, identity, medical records, police records, etc.

I am just pointing out that I understand social mobility, and trends in social mobility, not only from being in education, but from elsewhere too, and some people on here are making some assumptions that are wrong, both about the past, and about what I have said, when they have not read it.

OP posts:
LoislovesStewie · 21/08/2021 14:19

I'm not making assumptions; I know how many working class people went to university. Answer;not many. and as I was formerly a housing officer I had privileged information about my clients. There were some who claimed to be lots of things, but the facts told a different story.

Hypnoshiding · 21/08/2021 14:22

So you struggled so much, but also can't comprehend how privileged these retired people are?

How are you paying fines with no wage, no savings, no income?

You are hugely, unlikely to be facing prison time for a protest, unless you are also putting other people or property at risk.

You know its a small risk. Especially if you happen to be white. Retired professionals are a privileged bunch of people on the whole. Who could actually plan and execute this far better and actually make an impact.

Without futher depriving families who are already struggling families.

You are so far removed from RL, that you have exactly the attitude taht turns people off XR.

At any point, where privileged people just shrug their shoulders at the damage they do to the most vulnerable, they aren't worth listening to, imo. If they try and pretend they know what they are talking about and talk rubbish, people won't listen.

And if they don't try and improve themselves, it's quite obvious that their intention isn't really about anything. It's about entertaining themselves

NantesElephant · 21/08/2021 14:32

@Hypnoshiding

So you struggled so much, but also can't comprehend how privileged these retired people are?

How are you paying fines with no wage, no savings, no income?

You are hugely, unlikely to be facing prison time for a protest, unless you are also putting other people or property at risk.

You know its a small risk. Especially if you happen to be white. Retired professionals are a privileged bunch of people on the whole. Who could actually plan and execute this far better and actually make an impact.

Without futher depriving families who are already struggling families.

You are so far removed from RL, that you have exactly the attitude taht turns people off XR.

At any point, where privileged people just shrug their shoulders at the damage they do to the most vulnerable, they aren't worth listening to, imo. If they try and pretend they know what they are talking about and talk rubbish, people won't listen.

And if they don't try and improve themselves, it's quite obvious that their intention isn't really about anything. It's about entertaining themselves

So I’ll ask again - what are you doing to tackle the climate emergency? How would you propose persuading governments to take proportionate action? I don’t care how it happens but it needs to happen. What are your ideas if XR is the wrong approach?
Livpool · 21/08/2021 14:41

To echo PPs - I think that XR are from privileged backgrounds - mostly white and middle class. Black young people protesting wouldn't be treated quite so nicely or have lots of supporters.

Their privilege seems to have them blinkered with regards to their tactics - stopping working class people going to work is never going to get people on side.

Livpool · 21/08/2021 14:42

Oh and working class people did not generally follow to university in the 60s and 70s. I was the first person in my family to go in 1998. And my lovely dad is much more intelligent than me - but that wasn't an option for him

Darker · 21/08/2021 14:44

Black young people protesting wouldn't be treated quite so nicely or have lots of supporters.

While this is almost certainly true, the fault doesn't lie with XR.

Hypnoshiding · 21/08/2021 14:46

So I’ll ask again - what are you doing to tackle the climate emergency? How would you propose persuading governments to take proportionate action? I don’t care how it happens but it needs to happen. What are your ideas if XR is the wrong approach?

Op has already established listed, no one has to back anything up.

I don't have a team of retired professionals at hand to put together my plan.

I mean, quite simply, they could protest, but don't have to stop people getting to work or medical appointments. They could organise their own litter picking or litter facilities.

Are you seriously, suggesting that it's take money for the poorest in society or do nothing?

Stop people getting to medical appointments or do nothing?

Keep doing it. Use the professionals to actually present a front, that makes you look informed on the many social issues taht impact climate change. Show understanding about why, financially, some of us can do more than others. Actually, get some serious recognition and actually impact real change.

Hypnoshiding · 21/08/2021 14:46

@Darker

Black young people protesting wouldn't be treated quite so nicely or have lots of supporters.

While this is almost certainly true, the fault doesn't lie with XR.

No one said it was their fault. But it's factually true but for some reason widely denied.
NantesElephant · 21/08/2021 14:52

Protest without disruption has been happening for decades and it doesn’t work. Friends of the Earth and Greenpeace have been warning about global warming since the 80s and successive governments have just ignored them.

Litter picking is a cute thing to do but it makes close to zero impact on carbon emissions.

The city of London continues to invest millions in fossil fuels that are warming the planet and causing chaos. What is your plan to stop all of our kids living in an increasingly hostile world?

NantesElephant · 21/08/2021 14:58

I find it astonishing that people are angry with activists and not with governments who have ignored scientific evidence for so long because it’s politically inconvenient.

The government don’t care about the working poor. When London floods more regularly due to climate change, who do you think will be living in the housing that floods all the time? Who will struggle the most to feed their families when food prices shoot up due to crop failures? The working poor, that’s who.

Hypnoshiding · 21/08/2021 14:59

Litter picking is a cute thing to do but it makes close to zero impact on carbon emissions.

Are you seriously saying the people protesting for the environment don't really need to pick up their own litter?

Wtf?

Did I simply say 'litter pick and demonstrate quietly'? No put that's the only bit you picked up on?

Those were things I came up with, within a few minutes. Without the team of many highly trained and knowledgeable, retired professionals that XR have. So they could easily do better.

Again, XR are apparently with the professionals, who have all this knowledge on the issue. So they should be getting getting themselves into a position where they can influence those changes.

Unless they don't really, have all these people to hand. Or they aren't quite what the op makes out.

There is no way, on this planet I am going to agree that stopping people going to work, especially when they are already struggling is justifiable.

If you don't know how horrendous it is, to not make enough money or how a few days lost pay can turn someone's life upside down, consider yourself lucky....and privileged.

How does, hurting vulnerable people help?

LoislovesStewie · 21/08/2021 15:00

And preventing working class people from getting to work by public transport, as has happened before, is helping them how?

Original poster
54321nought · 21/08/2021 15:01

@Livpool

To echo PPs - I think that XR are from privileged backgrounds - mostly white and middle class. Black young people protesting wouldn't be treated quite so nicely or have lots of supporters.

Their privilege seems to have them blinkered with regards to their tactics - stopping working class people going to work is never going to get people on side.

firstly, no mostly they are not privileged, not wealthy, not white, not middle class, just people who have slogged hard for decades,

secondly some are "privileged" wealthy, white, middle class so what? Does being wealthy, white or middle class mean you are somehow less of a person? less entitled to have opinions, or fight for a cause?

OP posts:
VladmirsPoutine · 21/08/2021 15:04

Does being wealthy, white or middle class mean you are somehow less of a person? less entitled to have opinions, or fight for a cause?

No but it certainly comes in useful when trying to avoid jail as a consequence.

EstuaryBird · 21/08/2021 15:04

*If you don't think getting arrested is a sacrifice, then why don't you do it to protest?

its a huge sacrifice in terms of comfort, personal freedom, earning potential, finances, everything

Yes even if you are retired.

Do you think sitting in a police van or police cell for hours is not a sacrifice? Hours or days in police custody? Legal fees? Possible prison sentence?

I don't really see how the sacrifice could possibly be much bigger*

No ‘sacrifice’ at all if you truly believe what you’re fighting for. I had all that when I was in the ANL and we were fighting running battles with the NF and BNP.

Probably more of a sacrifice we’re the many, many hours .I spent painting the Rainbow Warrior only for it to be sunk by the French in New Zealand.

Or the nights when I stood outside the South African Embassy demanding the release of Nelson Mandela…regardless of the weather.

I could go on but you get the gist….

Nobody even gave me a badge to wear on the train home 🤷🏻‍♀️

Tell us about your personal sacrifices for your beliefs @54321nought

LoislovesStewie · 21/08/2021 15:08

OP, what did you think would happen when you posted?

Original poster
54321nought · 21/08/2021 15:09

ER are out to disrupt, and they succeed in disrupting, because they need to disrupt.

And the disruption is working, and the disruption is getting attention, and the attention is getting more support

And a few people on here expressing vitriol, when they just come onto mumsnet to express vitriol in general, doesn't change that. And throwing around the words "privileged" and statements like "you don't know anything about the real world" and "work -shy", just shows that you don't know what you are talking about, because i am not particularly priviledged, I have had more real world experience than most people on mumsnet! including sleeping rough and helping many other rough sleepers, and I am not work shy.

And for people who think risking arrest, fines, legal fees and a prison sentence is no big deal, please join and fight!

People are prepared to make huge sacrifices, but even better if there are people for whom these things are no sacrifice

I have asked again and again what alternatives are there to pressurising the government other than massive disruption, but no body has come up with anything.

If you do, again, please come and join

I am intending to participate this week. There isn't a joining, or a membership as such, you can just participate

OP posts:
EstuaryBird · 21/08/2021 15:10

Apologies for bad quoting skills and typos! I’m out clearing footpaths and picking up litter and signal is poor.

SimonJT · 21/08/2021 15:10

I have had more real world experience than most people on mumsnet!

Ah, yet more made up fantasy

EstuaryBird · 21/08/2021 15:13

Why don’t you respond to questions put to you directly @54321nought?

LoislovesStewie · 21/08/2021 15:14

Actually I think I have had more life experience after donkey's years of working in the public sector. I could write a book about it, but legally I can't. (Confidentiality clause!). However, I, for one, won't be out with ER. I have no wish to cause suffering, in the here and now, to those who need to get to work etc.