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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Child maintenance

52 replies

Faloola88 · 18/08/2021 00:44

Hi all, where do I even start.
Me and kids dad broke up 6 years ago. He is only available in a Sunday afternoon to spend time with them as he is always working. Me and their dad have a history of domestic violence, him towards me. I cant even begin to explain his evilness toward me....
Anyway I set me feelings on him aside and still allowed my kids to see him because they love him.
He has always paid me 100 per week for both children, a agreement between us, never had issues with him paying me.
His now self employed, had been for 2 years, has his own company etc...
We argued recently as he missed a couple child maintenance payments and he then sent me a screen shot of a online calculation he done from the child maintenance website.
He put down he earns 12 grand a year so they calculated that he should pay me 36.82 for both kids for a week!!!!
Every penny has always gone on my children, my 12 year old son is 6 foot an wears size 10 shoes, my daughter is 11.
The point is he lied about how much he earns a year! 12 grand! He dont get out of bed for less than 250 a day doing private construction work. I know alot he does cash in hand so I have reported him to hmrc as I dont believe his paying his taxes. I've also made a application to csa for them to look into it.
I know this sounds spiteful and I really am not money grabbing but my kids deserve and need that money! Im being treated for PTSD because of my past, this man bullied me, put me in hospital while pregnant with our son cut my neck with a blade, he was awful to me!
I feel very resentful because he seems to have absolutely everything and he is a evil man, yet I do absolutely everything for my kids and struggle on a daily basis.
I do believe he deserves to be caught out, do you know what hmrc will do and if they can catch him out working cash in hand as I believe he doesn't pass much money through his company and it seems he changed his company this may, to avoid tax? I dont know my id really appreciate some advice.
No negativity please

OP posts:

Babyroobs · 18/08/2021 14:20

How do these men get away with it. It's disgusting.

Getawaywithit · 18/08/2021 14:34

How do these men get away with it. It's disgusting

The Law on self employment and child maintenance are a poor fit. A half decent accountant can legally reduce payments down to a few pounds and there is nothing to be done. Job hopping, cash in hand, work through agencies etc all makes it hard to get regular maintenance.

The biggest issue by far, however, is the pervasive misogyny that exists around child maintenance across society as a whole. That, and the ongoing belief that parenting, particularly single parenting, is a woman’s domain. We wouldn’t have these issues if it affected men in quite the same way.

Unfortunately, child maintenance is seen as a private issue. There is no challenge to be given to those who are vocal about ‘money grabbing bitches’ or ‘she got the house’ or ‘she wants more than me so why should I pay?’. There are women prepared to stand by men who won’t pay - sisters, mothers, new partners are particularly guilty of this. My children have been told that if they separate from their partner’s mothers and I get wind no maintenance is paid, I will immediately change my will to omit my child and give their share to the unsupported grandchild. Most people, however, mutter stuff about ‘all the benefits’ and walk away.

We need the non-payment of child maintenance to be as socially unacceptable as drink driving or smoking whilst pregnant. It needs to be something we talk about and challenge. Whilst it’s swept under the carpet of ‘no one knows what goes on behind closed doors’, children will continue to go unsupported.

Whammyyammy · 18/08/2021 14:43

£12,000 per annum. The standard self employed wage admission

Original poster

Faloola88 · 18/08/2021 16:16

I just feel so angry that he gets to live the high life, he helped make our 2 kids and he earns 250 minimum per day. His a scum bag. My kids will never go without while I'm alive it just makes me so angry that he could do this to them. When my kids get older they will see him for the nasty piece of work he is. If this helps he opened a monzo account. I dont believe all his customers pay cash, some pay into a account also but his clearly only declaring 12 grand a year. I want him to get caught. We have suffered enough of him

OP posts:

therebeccariots · 18/08/2021 16:33

My ex has a full time PAYE job that is poorly paid. He then runs his freelance business parallel and submits a fraction of his earnings to hmrc. CMS after a lot of hassling of them by me have done an attachment to earnings on the full time job including a % for the arrears. They also have appointed a fraud investigator who has taken all the intelligence I have provided about his other business and are working in it although it is slow. His freelance work relies on social media, web pages and public promotion of work completed so it wasn't difficult to do that. Doing nothing gets zero results. Do what you ah e to but don't put yourself at risk

Original poster

Faloola88 · 18/08/2021 16:54

Oh also his been advertising his work on mybuilder.com since 2019 i have proof of this will this help?

OP posts:

Hemingwaycat · 18/08/2021 17:13

Self employment provides a major loophole for men, it’s very sad but quite commonplace. I really don’t understand why any loving parent would want their child to go without, surely every parent wants the best for them. They think it’s a punishment to the RP but actually makes their children suffer more.

Rebornagain · 18/08/2021 17:56

Ultimately the NRP gain more then men when it comes to money for children.

The majority of NRP will have child benefit payments , universal credit, free school meals if eligible, help with uniform etc plus the maintenance from the man.

I also bet when living together and self employed the wage he was receiving wasn't an issue.

Original poster

Faloola88 · 18/08/2021 19:24

This is absolutely not the issue. When me and him was together 6 years ago he worked for a company and paid his taxes. Is self employed now and doesn't pay his taxes. In my case as the full time parent I do not gain more than what their dad does. We are the ones having to make changes unable to afford some basic things whilst he is saving the child maintenance that he has decided to stop paying. My daughter is starting secondary school September my son goes into year 8. I have gone without meals to scrape to save for these expensive uniforms while he sits down the pub buying all his mates beers without a responsibility or care in the world. He can afford his rent, a 9 grand van, weekends away. He could pay outright for his kids uniform but gets pleasure out of seeing me scrape by. So no the full time parent isn't better off

OP posts:

copernicium · 18/08/2021 19:40

It's not worth the headache. Even if CMS found he did owe more, all they would do is add up the arrears at the bottom of the page each year. My ex lies about how often he has DC to pay less, but CMS have asked him and he says it's true, so can't do anything.

BillMasen · 18/08/2021 19:46

Setting yourself up as a limited company paying 12k salary and the rest in dividends is a standard way to manage being a contractor. It’s tax efficient. I did it when I contracted.

As someone else said, it’s not a good fit with cms rules though. The issue comes when men like this only pay based on the 12k (for clarity i based my payments on all income, and paid more)

The tax set up isn’t his fault. The paying based on what he knows is part of his income is.

bowchickawowwoww · 18/08/2021 19:55

These men should start going to prison for non payment or hiding their real salary

LittleOwl153 · 18/08/2021 20:06

Do you know is company name - can you find it though companies house? It is possible for cms to look at his lifestyle and whether it is congruent with his lifestyle - as her will.
It won't necessarily help as cms are useless and it depends on how determined you are but it is an angle to try.

Guavaf1sh · 18/08/2021 20:07

Leave it be. You can’t win. You will just cause yourself more stress and cause him to bend the rules even more. You have nothing to gain

Original poster

Faloola88 · 18/08/2021 20:45

I printed out all his company details from company house aswell as his profile and customer reviews from mybuilder.com. im very determined but not sure where to start so I started by researching his company and printing out everything I could

OP posts:

GallowwayGirl88 · 18/08/2021 20:47

@bowchickawowwoww

These men should start going to prison for non payment or hiding their real salary

But legally, they’re not doing anything wrong. Morally it is obviously disgusting behaviour.

Nb, women who are self employed/ company directors do the exact same thing.

Getawaywithit · 18/08/2021 22:51

To be fair @GallowwayGirl88, I have less of a issue with those who use the system legally to their advantage than I do with those, like my ex, who earn deliberately small amounts to keep themselves going, don’t pay tax, declare a few £thousand only in income, allow new partners to support them, give up working unless it’s cash in hand, open up and close down limited companies when the return is due etc etc etc. This way, everyone is being defrauded - the taxpayer in general, HMRC, the children…

There is a massive issue with self employment and maintenance from a legal perspective but if it’s legal and a loophole, many of us would do the same thing. I struggle to have an issue with it even if morally, leaving your children short is really something quite different.

therebeccariots · 19/08/2021 07:27

@copernicium

Through many conversations I've had with CMS if there is a dispute about how many nights the NnRP has them, they will calculate based on any court order or without one of those they default to 1 night a week so not sure how your ex is getting away with that.

therebeccariots · 19/08/2021 07:30

@Faloola88

Great start. You just need enough to persuade the CMS that further digging is worthwhile. They can access bank accounts and other things that can be helpful. There's only so far cash in hand works in the modern world. So if he is spending on holidays and high ticket items it's more likely he's used a card of some sort so they can find that out. I update the fraud investigator whenever there is something new and significant. Eg when he boasted

therebeccariots · 19/08/2021 07:31

Pressed send too soon! When he boasted on his webpage about a piece of work he did for a very well known international company.

Hekatestorch · 19/08/2021 07:58

@Faloola88

It may help. It really depends on how much advice he got, when setting everything up.

If he is earning 12k. Then the rest as dividends, then he could have a lot of money. Non of which will be taken into account by cms and its not fraud.

So everything you have could amount to nothing. I am not saying don't pursue this. But you have to understand, he may not be (legally) doing anything wrong.

The Van will come out of company funds. And, tbh, in that situation he definitely isn't wrong to purchase a new work van.

Reviews are all well and good. But doesn't prove how much he is charging or how much profit he makes.

Its very likely, this won't come to anything. But if you feel you need to do this, do it. My only concern is, it actually won't be good for you, mentally, to take this on and realise he is doing everything 'above board' and there's nothing CMS or the tax office can do.

I suspect you will feel like he has won again and may not be the best outcome for you.

Its immensely, depressing. I didn't pursue exh. For these reasons, he would have loved knowing I was spending time to try and catch him out, when he was working within the rules. He was one of the ones who pays himself huge dividends. Even though he got stung by the lack of support during lockdown, he won't stop. It's still overall more beneficial to him. Though I suspect he will actually start saving now.

Those first few years as a single parent were really really difficult. I am so sorry he is a shit

copernicium · 19/08/2021 07:59

@therebeccariots because the court order states shared care 50:50 even though in the small print it's alternate weekends and one weekday ... but in reality it's 0 contact for one child and 1 night a fortnight for the other (and he didn't see them at all last year). He doesn't bother with the court order or his DC, but uses it to pay less.

iloverock · 19/08/2021 08:53

Dividends can be taken into account by the CMS but you have to push them to do so.

justicefor · 29/08/2021 20:56

CMS need to change their policy for self employed parents and not allow them to decide not to draw a salary or have dividends that go into other companies every 2 years to avoid paying tax and maintenance. The CMS need to look into their business expenses as many are 'fiddling them and living off them. CMS needs to start looking at their 'lifestyle' and savings. It is every parents responsibility to pay. My ex has lied throughout the whole process. They should be punished for 'cheating' the system and yes put them in prison.

Princessandthepeas · 29/08/2021 21:39

I was successful with a variation of income application with CMA - I did go to companies house and screenshot the accounts though to show the assets in the business and also asked them to take his dividends into account. He ended up owing me a big back payment - because it took CMA over 6 months to deal with it - but he is paying it back now along with the higher rate.

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