To challenge this POA even though it would completely burn bridges with a parent?

[NameChange95]

Keeping it quite vague in order not to out myself. Elderly grandparent recently diagnosed with an illness and is starting to lack the mental capacity to make decisions for themselves. My parent has applied for power of attorney over their health and wealth.

My parent has a very bad financial history, borrows money all the time especially from this person (last time was over £5000 to pay off debt) and I’m genuinely worried they will spend all of their money and use it for themselves. My GP also could do with being in a home but parent won’t allow this because then his benefit money would be stopped, so I feel that because of the financial gain he is not making the right decisions.

What should I do about this?

I am very tempted to obstruct it based on this, however it would mean putting in a court application and it would completely burn the bridges between me and my parent, and my parent sees them more regularly because I live over 3 hours away so I don’t know how my GP would even react or want me to do this because it’s my parent who ‘cares for them’ (does a bit of housework and picks up shopping a couple of times a week).

I just don’t know if I can sit back and watch the wrong decisions being made based on money. I think I will offer to take over the sorting out appointments and housing side of things because parent never bothers chasing any of these things up, but there is no way parent would voluntarily give up control over finance and assets etc.

It’s very common to have more than one person named on a LPOA. Would your GP still have capacity to make decisions around this? If not then your DP can’t apply for it anyway. The person who applies is the named individual, ie your GP.

If they have capacity I’d speak to them and suggest naming at least one other person, preferably someone with good financial sense. If they do not have capacity then I’d advise you to seek drive from Age UK who are excellent.

Both me and my daughter are named on my Mums POA

It's really frightening to think of your parent just spending all of your grandparent's money. I think I'd speak to Age Concern about this.

I have been put down as a replacement but that’s only if P can’t make decisions and they become incapable too, otherwise I can’t make any decisions for GP

Very difficult and upsetting scenario

I think it depends whether the GP’s needs are being met and whether they are prepared to go into a home. My GP would rather die than be put in a home and I mean that literally.

POA is the only one of their children (my aunt) who has the time/inclination/ability to look after them. My aunt is sensible enough but has two adult children both with their own families and both very showy. They live massively beyond their means and are in lots of debt. One of them lost their job shortly before covid. Aunt raised them this way and is always bailing them out.

My GP has over 6 figures in cash, a owned property and a lot of fancy gold jewellery…etc so there’s a decent estate. We all know what’s happening/gonna happen and aunt/her DC will come out better than anyone else but it enables GP to see out their last years how they want to.

If you storm in and do what you think needs doing is your GP gonna be happier? I Can’t help but wonder with a lot of these kinda threads If the undertone is actually ‘my family member is moving in on my inheritance and I don’t like it but equally I’m too busy to actually look after the benefactor myself’

Yes very difficult....if you wanted to dispute a POA think you would need to go to The Court of Protection

@Lonelylooloo

I think it depends whether the GP’s needs are being met and whether they are prepared to go into a home. My GP would rather die than be put in a home and I mean that literally.

POA is the only one of their children (my aunt) who has the time/inclination/ability to look after them. My aunt is sensible enough but has two adult children both with their own families and both very showy. They live massively beyond their means and are in lots of debt. One of them lost their job shortly before covid. Aunt raised them this way and is always bailing them out.

My GP has over 6 figures in cash, a owned property and a lot of fancy gold jewellery…etc so there’s a decent estate. We all know what’s happening/gonna happen and aunt/her DC will come out better than anyone else but it enables GP to see out their last years how they want to.

If you storm in and do what you think needs doing is your GP gonna be happier? I Can’t help but wonder with a lot of these kinda threads If the undertone is actually ‘my family member is moving in on my inheritance and I don’t like it but equally I’m too busy to actually look after the benefactor myself’

Not at all, I have quite a decent amount of money myself (over £4000 a month income from myself alone) and don’t need GP’s money. I do law full time with chronic health conditions, have children with autism that require full time care when not at a specialist setting and a single parent, and if I could dedicate more time to GP then I absolutely would. I would like him to be somewhere where he can be looked after properly, have decent meals as he is unable to cook for himself, have company and is not deteriorated quicker than he already is because he simply can’t look after himself.

That’s what I want GP’s money to actually go on! ^^

POA or deputyship?

POA

Your GP must have signed to give LPA, otherwise it isn’t valid. Your parent cannot apply if your grandparent does not have capacity to make the decision.

If you believe they were coerced or pressure to sign without understanding, it is a safeguarding issue. You could refer via local authority - but need to be tenacious. You might ask to speak with your grandparents GP who is the person most likely to assess cognition. Tell the GP that it is a safeguarding concern.

You can apply for deputyship if your grandparent lacks capacity, but it’s more expensive than LPA and more complex.

If it's just health and welfare they would have no control over anything financial, they would need property and finance side of LPOA to do that..

If you believe someone with LPA is not acting in the donors best interest, you can contact the Office of the Public Guardian who can advise.

You might struggle to challenge it then as you are effectively overriding someone who has the mental capacity to make their own decisions by granting it. You would also need to prove you are right in your claims despite being so far away and having less contact. Have you spoken to your GP about your concerns? They need to be the one giving POA rather than your parent applying for it.

Www.Independentage.org have really good info about this kind of thing. Would it come under safeguarding adults are they at risk of financial abuse or self neglect? The local authority might be able to advise you.

He has no concept of money - would take £500 out to the supermarket and not realise. He heats up food and then forgets it’s in there and ends up surviving on cake bars. However he has signed the POA and seems to understand it? However I don’t know how quickly he would have forgotten as he gets very confused at times…

Can a judge ever refuse a POA if there is any doubt in the paperwork etc? Without me having to do anything?

@Diggingmyselfoutthehole

If it's just health and welfare they would have no control over anything financial, they would need property and finance side of LPOA to do that..

It’s health and wealth - medical and finances x

Sorry I miss read, would your grandparent be open a 2nd person going on as well, it's usually always suggested as if anything happened to your parent it means the document is no longer valid and they would be left with no attorney. Also if they had more than one it means they could set up so the attorneys have to act jointly for all decisions so they couldn't be under hand.

Attorneys are monitored on bank accounts though so if anything flagged up it's would be passed to OPG.

I am the replacement one, however I do know that if P was to become bankrupt or subject to an IVA I think they can no longer be POA over finances… however at that point they probably would have used all of GP’s money to bail themselves out!

GP doesn’t trust banks 100% and doesn’t put all of his money into one and keeps thousands of pounds in his home which would have no way of being flagged up as no-one apart from the 3 of us know about it

Unfortunately with it being under the bed there's no proof it's there plus it's very doubtful it would be covered by home insurance as well if for whatever reason it was destroyed.

The only option is reporting them to the office of public guardian if they start being under hand but if its with the cash at home they will have no way of tracking it.

Who is the certificate provider? They have to agree to your parent being POA

If elderly relatives is lacking mental capacity, then it matey be too late for the poa to be auctioned. Also, part if the process is for someone, not an attorney, to sign they’re not being coerced etc. Maybe contact this person?

It’s health and wealth - medical and finances

There's the "health and welfare" one and the "property and finance" one - do they have both? Or is it a very old one? i.e. an "Enduring Power of Attorney" which covers both and has to be registered (newer Lasting Powers of Attorney will already have been registered).

If it is an older Enduring PoA, you might be able to stop it being registered and if your GP really is incompetent, apply for a deputyship.

It should really have been challenged when the Power(s) were first being prepared but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

As suggested, I'd contact Help the Aged and discuss it with them.