To ask if going cashless is a good thing.

[smittenkittten]

Most people I know don’t want to go cashless, but it seems to be inevitable that we are heading that way. Personally I hate the idea. There’s so many occasions when cash is needed, too many to mention, but it’s the little things mainly. Treating the grandkids, summer fetes, bring and buy sales, car boots......all the things where you usually use cash..
Will it just be digits in a bank account? What if you lose your phone? ...What do people think of it all?

@melj1213

I work in a supermarket and I hate cash, mostly because it is a breeding ground for germs. I cash up our tills every night and when I finish I always have to go and wash my hands as they are so visibly dirty from handling all of the coins, and that's before you take into account the people who still think it is acceptable to hold money with their mouth before handing it to a retail worker 🤮

I genuinely can't remember the last time I needed or used physical cash - when I'm at work I can't carry cash, my bus ticket is on my phone (and you can pay with cards on the buses), all of DDs classes etc are paid via bank transfer, DD has her own bank account for pocket money etc so I just got out of the habit of intentionally drawing money out for the sake of having it. If I needed physical cash for a specific reason then I could easily draw it out but I haven't had that situation happen for months, if not years.

Surely handling all the goods you have to scan is just as dirty?

@gamerchick

Personally I think this thread is alarming to any prepper reading it. Totally reliant on the system to keep them ticking over. Take that away and it'll be days before they're desperate.

Banks go down. Power cuts. Totally fucked.

If the banking system collapses all those little metal discs and bits of paper promising to pay the bearer will be no more use than a bitcoin account!

I thought you guys kept your savings in gold and tinned food?

I think those calling of cost of card transactions for small businesses are being pretty short sighted- as cash becomes less prevalent the banks will have to pass on the cost to customers. The physical nature of cash and the need to fill ATMs, pay for security services to transport cash, have physical tellers or devices that count etc means this will quickly become the more costly service versus fees on payment services. I see a switch on those ‘cash only’ small shops etc coming fairly soon.

Digital currencies also will be on the cards for more everyday use.

I genuinely can't remember the last time I used cash. I want to say ten years ago. Everywhere takes card. I have rarely been anywhere with a minimum spend.

In fact, last week I was at the beach and went on the arcades and that was all cars machine too!

Also surely banks can only see when and when I’ve used my card? They can’t see what I’ve purchased. That would involve serious data sharing between shops and banks that 1) there just isnt the set up to properly enable that and 2) would breach most privacy laws. You’d have to agree to data sharing in this way.

I agree there are edge cases that need to be considered but as others have called out there are also huge positives to cashless around better control over tax evasion, funding of criminal activity etc.

I can actually see more positives for a cashless society but it would require serious thought as to when and what this actually means.

I don't like the fact that nowadays with cashless you don't get a receipt. I constantly have to ask for one and get made to feel Im a pest. I, like other people, have a budget and like to keep receipts to check against bank statements. It must make it really difficult for people to budget. The other thing I hate is the chaos shops go into when the till goes down ( as they do). Where is the scientific evidence that Covid-19 is transferred through money? Why can't we just keep cash as well as cards? It leaves, elderly, vulnerable and homeless people in a difficult situation to go completely cashless.It must be awful for those on low incomes.

I’m in NZ. No major bank accepts cheques anymore. They will become obsolete this year here. It’s not inconceivable to consider other payment methods evolving.

I mean I haven't used cash in about 3 years... I honestly didn't think about it. Everywhere takes card so why would I get cash out? Money is just a paper symbol and now we can do that didgutally

@roundtable

Someone was trying to take their kids to the cinema. It was cashless and he didn't have a bank card. He was embarrassed and left so quickly - before I was able to offer to pay in exchange for the cash. It made me feel quite upset but nowhere near as upsetting as it would have been for him and his kids.

Everyone needs access to a bank card before the country can go cashless. It shouldn't be that certain activities or things are unavailable to certain groups as they don't have a bank card.

OK that's sad :(

Surely handling all the goods you have to scan is just as dirty?

Money is far dirtier than any item on the shelf in a supermarket.

People pick up items from a shelf and bring it to the checkout - of course the delivery process isn't a sterile environment but items are rarely visibly dirty.

I have had people attempt to hand me money that is covered in saliva, sweat, blood and a variety of otherwise unidentifiable wetness and/or stickiness and potential bodily fluids.

I have had people try and give me money produced from various parts of their person - including bras, underwear and socks.

I have had people try to hand me money that they have produced with dirty hands from the depths of the pocket of a coat that stinks of piss and has not been washed in the last decade.

I have had people hand me money with hands covered in dirt, oil, nicotine, plaster dust, paint, cement mix etc

I have had people hand me money that is visibly dirty, to the point where its only because the number was just about visible that I could differentiate between the 2p and the 10p they handed me.

I have had people dump out the contents of their pockets- coins, fluff, old sweets, scratchcard dust, random cigarette filters, bits of god only knows what and all - onto my desk and expect me to root through it to get the money they owe.

All of these things are stuff retail workers encounter every day. I'd rather empty a whole pallet of stock onto the shop floor than take money from some customers.

Also surely banks can only see when and when I’ve used my card? They can’t see what I’ve purchased.

You will probably get offers (or not) of different financial products if they see you shop in Waitrose and more expensive clothing stores frequently and spend in restaurants fairly regularly compared with Poundsaver and Lidl and hardly ever eating out r going on holiday, and very carefully balancing the last week of the month before payday and credit card payments. They obviously know exactly what you get paid, if they have your current account (which is what many people use for every day expenses like the supermarket.) They know your address, whether you have a mortgage or rent and how much, insurance products, loans, regular charitable donations...

They already know a hell of a lot about you without needing the detail of whether you prefer Harpic or Domestos or own brand bog cleaner, and their AI algorithms will mean in some areas, they may know more about you than you know yourself. This may or may not be useful to hackers and scammers, but if someone has hacked all that data about you, they have probably got access to your bank account(s) anyway.

I understand the theoretical concerns. I also haven’t actually used cash in over a year. I don’t even pay DD’s allowance in cash anymore.

Money is far dirtier than any item on the shelf in a supermarket

I understand what you are saying and why you are annoyed. But everything is 'dirty' once you leave your home.

You sit on a park bench, it's dirty (anyone could have touched it). You get on a bus, it's dirty, and so on. The only difference is that you don't see people touching these things. We all need to wash our hands often, whether we work in retail or not. That's all.

I've lived in NZ for 5 years and I think I've handled actual cold hard cash once when I specifically went to buy flowers and fruit at a roadside honesty box!

I can't even think where I would need cash. Even the fetes etc or little stalls take cards now as it's pretty easy to get a little reader. We had the local primary school on the beach recently doing a charity sausage sizzle after an event. I lamented my lack of shit quality sausage in foamy white sliced because we had no cash. The buggers only had a card reader didn't they?

Had two of them....

@Samcro

I worry about people like my adult dc They are disabled to the extent that they can't pay for stuff themselves, so the carer has to do it, the carers are not allowed to use cards where the resident can't put in a pin. So how the hell will dd be able to spend money.

Some form of guardianship might be the solution

@safariboot

If the computer has to say yes every time you buy something, what happens when the computer says no?

A "cashless society" lays the foundations for a huge amount of control by people who should not be in control. And, of course, for plain old computer fuckups and hacks.

Tyranny is only ever an election away.

That’s been true ever since people started putting money in banks, surely?

An ATM only dispenses because people in control of it say it should.

A bank teller only hands you cash because those controlling the bank allow them to.

None of this is new.

In ships, taxis etc, I always pay by card. I think it makes it harder for them to hide their income, therefore more likely that they will pay the correct tax

@notanothertakeaway

In ships, taxis etc, I always pay by card. I think it makes it harder for them to hide their income, therefore more likely that they will pay the correct tax

🙄 I wonder what its like to be so judgemental and suspicious of people all the time. What a hero you are. Saving the world from tax avoiders on card payment at a time. Bravo!!

That’s been true ever since people started putting money in banks

This is different from everyone being forced to keep all their money in banks and not being allowed to hold any amount physically, though...

I don't like the thought that the bank ie HMRC knows exactly to the penny how much money you have. That leaves the very rich still able to hide stuff using valuable paintings, cars, property but the punters, you and I have to declare every penny.
A relative has done up old cars for years - always for cash, I think the incentive of spending hours of your spare time tinkering and repairing will go if it is now taxed as it probably isn't worth it.
I use cash for my hairdresser, window cleaner. And just paid cash to enter a painting in a small art exhibition.

My local chip shop only takes cash, not card

Ah, but you changed your mind on it not being discriminatory?

No, I still don’t agree it’s discriminatory. A business is fully within its rights to accept whatever forms or payments it wants and that’s a good thing.

If in the unlikely event that we became cashless then all these chip shops that only accept cash would have to get with it and take cards pretty quickly.
But they should be looking at doing that anyway IMO.

Anyone know what businesses pay for a card reader? Perhaps it makes to big a dent in their profits.

I think they need to see the bigger picture. Just as people won't use a shop where it's card only because they're a cash person, there's people that wouldn't use a shop that's cash only because they never carry any cash.
So the chippy for instance might actually increase custom by accepting cards. People like me would use them.