Upstairs toddler keeping me up at night

[NYA28]

I bought a flat 2 years ago, which I worked very hard to save for. There are two 1-bed flats in a converted house, I’m on the ground floor. Upstairs is tenanted and all’s been fine until about 3 months ago when a new family moved in (2 women, a man and a toddler around 18 months, unsure of the dynamic there.) I said hello a couple of times when they moved in but they weren’t really forthcoming, didn’t tell me their names or anything and gave the impression they don’t want to talk so we just keep ourselves to ourselves.

My issue is the toddler who likes to run, jump and throw things between (quite specific times of) 2-8am and in the evening around 7-11pm. This is in the room above my bedroom and obviously the ceiling is very thin in these types of buildings so this disturbs my sleep, to the point now where I’m starting to feel unwell from lack of sleep, both mentally and physically. The toddler is pretty quiet during the day and I don’t hear the adults much either (I’ve been WFH since the pandemic).

I understand the parents probably aren’t thrilled by their kid being awake at night and I don’t expect silence 24/7 when living in a flat and I get small children make noise but was wondering if they could do anything to help ‘soften’ the noise at night, like get the toddler to wear slippers or put some rugs down- but I’m not sure how to say this to them?

Also, in the 3 months they’ve lived here, I’ve never seen them take the baby out at all. We live opposite the beach and at the end of the road there’s a lovely park with a playground- I feel like if the baby could run around during the day outside instead of being bored in the flat he wouldn’t be so active at night? Again, don’t feel like this is my place to mention this to them?

What’s the best way to approach this? I feel bad that my first conversation with them would be me complaining but it's affecting my day-to-day, could I maybe put a polite note under the door? I’ve tried earplugs, sleeping on the sofa and at the moment I’m spending whole weekends at my mum’s just so I can get a decent night’s sleep- any serious advice would be appreciated.

This is not your remit and your not I assume a professional in this field, it's not your business to try and start a conversation about why a child is only awake at night.

The child needs day light, sun.. Outside stimulation. This is very very odd.

Please please just phone professionals and let them deal with this, trained people.

we all have a duty to help children's welfare

One phone call maybe all it takes to save a life.

Thanks @ComtesseDeSpair, this is helpful.

When you approached your neighbours, did you say the noise was coming from their kids, or did you just mention noise generally?

@Panickingpavlova can you clarify what you mean?

I live in a flat and I have neighbours with a 4/5 year old downstairs, they almost never take their child out either, I can count on the fingers of one hand on the number of times they have been out since beginning of this year, the child stays at home 24/7, she doesn’t go to nursery either which is weird. There is a lovely park that is two minutes’ walk from us, with a large play area. Our neighbour’s child makes a lot of noise too because she is stuck at home 24/7. It’s not like they are shielding either as the man goes out to work everyday, leaving the woman SAHM and the child at home 24/7.

I just don’t understand some neighbours.

• can I ask, if this is an abusive situation and that child is being abused, kept in stunting its development no sun light etc and op knocks on the door, complaining about noise..

What does anyone else think they will do to those child who is seemingly only moves about at night?

How will they, keep him quiet do you think... Knowing someone is a on to the them.. And they are attracting attention?

@Panickingpavlova this is quite a leap

Op you a re saying you work from home, you don't hear the toddler in the day but most nights from 2 am right through to 8am..throwing stuff about...

Is no one else getting alarm bells?

On what planet is this normal??

Does sound an odd set up,if Ive understood correctly the flat above is also one bedroom and they have 3 adults and a toddler living there?? Is the flat rented or owned? If rented might be worth trying to contact landlord , also try and strike up conversation and mention the noise in the night.
You cant stop a baby crying but a toddler running around for a prolonged period in the early hours every night isnt normal.
You could try earplugs, soft music etc or move rooms if feasible. Sounds pretty awful for you tbh, maybe eventually it will become normal sound and you will sleep through it?
If i was concerned about toddlers welfare I would turn into nosey neighbour and see if my hunch about them never taking toddler out was actually right, if it is then yes do report to social services as that is a red flag.

Can I just say, as a social worker, that we would in no way be interested in this with such little evidence/ low level concern.
Sleep regressions are entirely normal and we do not infringe on people's right to a private life without serious safeguarding concerns.. A neighbour who "thinks they don't take the toddler out" would at best be passed to the Health Visitor to continue to try and contact the family.

Does sound an odd set up,if Ive understood correctly the flat above is also one bedroom and they have 3 adults and a toddler living there??

This is what stood out to me most too tbh! Maybe they've converted the living room into a bedroom too but either way it sounds terribly cramped.

If there are 3 adults above you, how do you know it is the toddler making the noise at night?

A
Wow kindly so, a health visitor who can't seem to get hold off them and a toddler up every night for hours but not seemingly in the day?. They wouldn't check and at least knock on the door?

Yanbu and perhaps talk to the property owner of the agent about some sound proofing.your health comes before upsetting thoughtless neighbours.I hope you get it sorted soon.💐

I have can't imagine a sleep regression would go into for hours and hours each night.

This response really saddens me.

I'd complain. You need your sleep.

Sorry, just how it is I'm afraid.. We investigate safeguarding issues and we certainly don't door knock uninvited unless it's an emergency.. Many kids have rubbish sleeping patterns and parents who don't put in place good sleep hygiene habits for little ones - it's not great parenting but not a safeguarding issue. At least not in times where our resources are already stretched so thin.

I can obviously only speak for my Local Authority, things may be different elsewhere..

Are they Eastern European by any chance, OP? I only say this because my Mum had a family move in next door to her, and they all seemed to be nocturnal. The DH worked night shifts so she kept the kids up all night and they then all slept in the day. Mum had to get the LL and council involved in the end as the noise overnight was horrific...... kids running up and down stairs, TV on a full volume. Two young kids that were never outdoors in day light hours...... it was really really strange. It nearly sent Mum mad in all seriousness, and she was on sleeping tablets and anti depressants after 2 years of it.

It was only when the council got involved with threats of action and SS got involved that the LL took it seriously.

@BrilloPaddy that is strange, but just strange- I doubt it had anything to do with them bring Eastern European

@NYA28 - I pitched it as a problem with the houses rather than them - so knocked on the door and in an apologetic fashion said that I completely knew that they weren’t meaning to be so noisy, but the wall between our houses is single skin and it means sound travels much more than they might have been used to in their old house, and the children’s bedroom adjoins my home office and I’d really appreciate it if they could try to keep the volume down during working hours. Try the same tac, acknowledge that you know it’s difficult for them to keep a toddler quiet but the ceiling is thin. Most people are generally receptive to requests that don’t come across as critical of them or blaming them for the problem.

On everything else, I think that this year is a bad one to pick to be overly concerned about people not leaving the house very often. Half of MN seems to be clinically vulnerable and hasn’t gone further than the garden gate since last March, so it’s not a stretch to assume this family might be the same and I’ve no doubt social services would say likewise.

Got exactly the same problem in a converted house with a family of 6 above us, where the father works night shift and the mother keeps the 4 kids youngest of 3 up till 2 to 3am, letting them run up and down the stairs all night, exactly the same as Brillopaddy, she runs the washing machine at 1am, my husband has advanced parkinsons and this is killing us through lack of sleep, we have had to get a housing lawyer, police have been out multiple times as the father threatened to punch us and get people to sort us out for complaining, we now have a camera they put opposite our flat door, police won't take it down, the kids never get taken out, our housing trust have done nothing, on sleeping pills too, if we owned our place we would have moved, contacted our local councillor who sent them social services, they thought it was us and threw a kitchen knife into our garden and threw water all over me and the police when they came, he denied it and still not arrested and nothing done 6 months later, council won't even come out, all my neighbours are too scared to report it, i would move if i were you, wish we could but husband is too ill now

Oh I'm so sorry to hear what you're going through @decadance my heart goes out to you xxx

Right so the child might be in sleep regression… who lets their kid get up and run about playing like it’s daytime? If you heard crying or something but generally running about and playing? They sound weird.

@ComtesseDeSpair

On everything else, I think that this year is a bad one to pick to be overly concerned about people not leaving the house very often. Half of MN seems to be clinically vulnerable and hasn’t gone further than the garden gate since last March, so it’s not a stretch to assume this family might be the same and I’ve no doubt social services would say likewise.

Completely agree. One of our neighbours has Cystic fibrosis and has been petrified about covid. She has health anxiety anyway, but rarely leaves the house at the moment due to the cases of covid. Her little boy is in the back garden on nice days and we always message if she needs anything. I'd never think to call social services because I don't see them leave the house.