A level grades

[DolphinFC]

If feel that value of an A grade ar A level has been reduced dramatically. I feel truly sorry for those very bright, hard-working students who would've got an A grade no matter what. Their deserved A grade is now lost in a pile of undeserved A grades.

I am afraid you are living in a fantasy world

Absolutely not, everything I have told you is true. It is no surprise to me that private schools have higher results this year as their pupils on the whole didn't miss a day of school. You can sit there and say that's as irrelevant as you like but if you think it made no difference then what's the point of any teaching?

So, yes, huge amounts of evidence were assimilated and discussed, but the evidence was chosen selectively to optimise the pupil’s grade (which was actually following OFQUAL advice)

If this was the advice (no idea if it was or wasn't) why didn't state schools do it?

@Bryonyshcmyony,

That is a complete non sequitur.

That explains why private school grades should have gone DOWN less than state school grades.

It does not explain a grade increase at all.

And, yes, I know enough of what I speak to know you are living in a fantasy world.

It’s interesting that the article in the times quoted talks about missing gaps of education that will need to be addressed at university when universities claim that online for some subjects has been so successful they plan to carry it forward. DD at college has worked much harder than DS at university and has been supported in physical hours of teaching. I would say DD is better prepared for university than DS was, as she has had a huge amount of time with self studies.

@Bryonyshcmyony,

Of course state schools did it too, just a little less brazenly.

And the reasons are obvious.

Schools were basically expected to both run a normal school and be exam boards, a ridiculous ask for any school. However, private schools have a lot more staff per pupil, so had the time (and incentive) to manage this very carefully. State schools were just totally overwhelmed by the impossible ask.

And, yes, I know enough of what I speak to know you are living in a fantasy world

It may be you living in a fantasy world then as I can only tell you my lived experience

No idea why you dismiss continuity of teaching as irrelevant to grades. Seems a bit silly if I'm honest

Of course state schools did it too

If state schools also followed the Ofqual advice then there is no issue

Now it feels like anything but an A or A is considered not good enough, and I don't want my DD to feel like that.*

Well of course, because a B or below now means you’re in the bottom 50% of A level candidates. So in terms of “good enough” some kids will need to be told they aren’t.

It’s like in The Incredibles with the villain Syndrome, when everyone is special, no one will be.

@Bryonyshcmyony,

What lived experience?!

Do you think you know how pupils were graded based on what your daughter (or her school) told you as a parent?

Were you present when her teachers were assigning her grades or how her SLT decided what pieces of evidence to use or how to interpret them?

Were you there when the board assessed this evidence ? Or whether to challenge any of it?

Why is it parents believe they know how schools work? Patients don’t tend to make the same assumptions about hospitals, or passengers about flying a plane.

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@Bryonyshcmyony,

Of course state schools did it too, just a little less brazenly.

And the reasons are obvious.

Schools were basically expected to both run a normal school and be exam boards, a ridiculous ask for any school. However, private schools have a lot more staff per pupil, so had the time (and incentive) to manage this very carefully. State schools were just totally overwhelmed by the impossible ask.[/quote]
I think this is a very clear and realistic explanation of what may have happened.

Also In general (pre pandemic) private schools made higher predictions to secure offers. I don't know why or how this worked, but when my DC got to uni and there was that flurry of 'what did you get at A level?' questions, they found their private contemporaries had largely been over-predicted. It did the job and got the offers in a climate where unis have been snapping at students to get the fees. Now of course they're beating them back!!

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@Bryonyshcmyony,

What lived experience?!

Do you think you know how pupils were graded based on what your daughter (or her school) told you as a parent?

Were you present when her teachers were assigning her grades or how her SLT decided what pieces of evidence to use or how to interpret them?

Were you there when the board assessed this evidence ? Or whether to challenge any of it?

Why is it parents believe they know how schools work? Patients don’t tend to make the same assumptions about hospitals, or passengers about flying a plane.[/quote]
Do you work in a private school then?

@Bryonyshcmyony,

‘Do you work in a private school then?’

I am happy to remain very anonymous on here and won’t answer any personal questions.

You can draw your own conclusions about my knowledge from what I post-kind of the point of an anonymous forum.

We are however discussing the whole situation and not one student.

Across the whole situation it is unfair.

I know - also from lived experience - of a situation in which an independent school awarded vastly inflated predicted grades across an entire sixth form and just one student got the predicted grades.

Why would a school do that?

All sorts of reasons, some very good. Optimism. It's nice for the students and for the school to be positive, The paying parents like it. etc.

Does it still happen? I bet it does.

Were this to have happened followed by a lockdown, would that school have done everything it could to help students evidence their predicted grades? Yes, how could they not.

Not all schools would be in this situation. The majority of kids at Westminster, St. Pauls etc will get a load of A grades anyhow.

But some of the little, hopeful schools, well it seems in fact rather likely to me.

@Bryonyshcmyony

I am afraid you are living in a fantasy world

Absolutely not, everything I have told you is true. It is no surprise to me that private schools have higher results this year as their pupils on the whole didn't miss a day of school. You can sit there and say that's as irrelevant as you like but if you think it made no difference then what's the point of any teaching?

How on would not missing a day of school explain the massive grade inflation over previous years when students also didn't miss a day of school?

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@Bryonyshcmyony,

‘Do you work in a private school then?’

I am happy to remain very anonymous on here and won’t answer any personal questions.

You can draw your own conclusions about my knowledge from what I post-kind of the point of an anonymous forum.[/quote]
I'll take that as a no then.

How on would not missing a day of school explain the massive grade inflation over previous years when students also didn't miss a day of school?

Because no students state or private missed a day of school in previous years. Teaching was provided for both sectors

This cycle plenty of state schools missed an entire term of lessons from March 2020, but private schools did not.

So the top A grade students just prior to taking A levels would be working fairly independently anyway. They wouldn't need to be pinned to a computer 9 to 5 being spoonfed.

@herecomesthsun

So the top A grade students just prior to taking A levels would be working fairly independently anyway. They wouldn't need to be pinned to a computer 9 to 5 being spoonfed.

Well schools were closed at the end of year 12,.so not just prior to taking A levels

@herecomesthsun,

When people think of private schools, they always think of the highly selective ones that you mentioned.

These are the tip of the iceberg, though. Anyone with money can find a private school for their child and the vast majority of children are, by definition, not A* students.

Private education is a market. Schools try to fulfil what their paying customers (the parents) want within the constraint of law and national guidance.

And what do parents want. It does differ, which is why there are lots of different types of private school. In general, though, it is long days to fit in with the parents’ demanding jobs, good grades and a strong extra-curricular (now called co-curricular for some reason) offering.

All the above is generally good!

However getting good grades (especially at GCSE) does sometimes mean focusing on exam technique and fact learning over problem solving and ‘thinking’ techniques. This year, unfortunately, the ‘good grades’ bit has also led to unwarranted ‘optimism’ in TAGs.

And being taught the curriculum in year 12 isn't being spoon fed really, is it now

These are the tip of the iceberg, though. Anyone with money can find a private school for their child and the vast majority of children are, by definition, not A students*

So how do you explain the higher amount of A*s from private schools in a normal exam cycle?

This thread has been illuminating for anyone who wondered how the UK exam system managed 20 years of continual grade inflation beginning in the 90s. Every year the results were 3% - 7% better and every year commentators who questioned whether teenagers were really improving in intelligence were shouted down.

Parents believe that their kids are working super hard (are they working in their bedroom or chatting on social media? Who here goes on MN during work time?). Teachers are invested in their students and want them to get the grade they are capable of on their best day, not their average day.

Now we have two years of results (from teacher assessment) that are obviously unbelievable. And yet the first ten pages of this thread are full of parents defending the results. So many people who want the pretty lie rather than the ugly truth.

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@herecomesthsun,

When people think of private schools, they always think of the highly selective ones that you mentioned.

These are the tip of the iceberg, though. Anyone with money can find a private school for their child and the vast majority of children are, by definition, not A* students.

Private education is a market. Schools try to fulfil what their paying customers (the parents) want within the constraint of law and national guidance.

And what do parents want. It does differ, which is why there are lots of different types of private school. In general, though, it is long days to fit in with the parents’ demanding jobs, good grades and a strong extra-curricular (now called co-curricular for some reason) offering.

All the above is generally good!

However getting good grades (especially at GCSE) does sometimes mean focusing on exam technique and fact learning over problem solving and ‘thinking’ techniques. This year, unfortunately, the ‘good grades’ bit has also led to unwarranted ‘optimism’ in TAGs.[/quote]
Yes indeed, I am particularly thinking of the little schools. St Whatsits School which was struggling before the pandemic, and worries about losing kids in the sixth form.

Why would St whatsists care? Those kids have left and no league tables this year

In fact parents lower down the school wouldn't want rampant grade inflation thst doesn't benefit them at all

@Bryonyshcmyony,

On average, the baseline cognitive scores of private school pupils are on average 10 points higher than the national average. This is because there is a correlation between money and intelligence and also due to full scholarships at the top schools for very bright pupils from less well off homes.

In addition, teacher/pupil ratios are better and, of course, there are fewer disruptive pupils.

On balance, you would expect private school pupils to do about a grade better, on average.

It is the fact that the differential has increased so much that is worrying. Yes, to some extent, that is due to better remote teaching BUT the whole point of using TAGs was meant to be that the disadvantages some suffered due to COVID were neutralised, not accentuated.