To ask for help with this knitting instruction paragraph?

[Chamomileteaplease]

I have a pattern for a jumper. Was doing ok until this bit and if anyone can help I would be very grateful:

(Where there's a choice for size I have just put in my size)

20th row. K3, rib 4, work 2 tog, (rib 2, work 2 tog) 21 times, rib 4, k3. 78 sts.

Does rib 4 mean k2, p2?
So what does rib 2 mean?
Why is the rib 2, work 2 tog in brackets??

I think this is the bit I don't understand.

Many thanks for your help with my fun Saturday night .

What does it say in the stitch bit of the instructions?

Which pattern is it - might help unpick it.

brackets work like maths. so you do rib 2 followed by work 2 tog 21 times.

ie rib 2 work2tog rib 2 work 2 tog etc...

Thank you Mavis.

The stitch bit says:
1st row k5, p2, k2, p2, rep from to last 3 sts, k3.
2nd row k3, p2, k2, p2, rep from to last 3 sts, k3.

These two rows set the sts - 3 sts in g-st at both ends of the rows and all other sts in rib. **

Thank you I get it about the brackets now. But am still confused about rib. I thought rib was k1, p1? Or k2, p2.

It's a King Cole chunky easy knit jumper.

Oh bother! The stars for the knitting have done a mumsnet bold in the wrong place!

'Rib 4' means knit 4 stitches in rib. So knit 2 perl 2.

Rib can be any combination of knit and perl or indeed anything else, I've knitted rib with cable in before now. If it tells you to 'rib' you just do whatever the rib pattern is for however many stitches or rows it tells you to.

Rib 4 will be either K1 P1 K1 P1 or P1 K1 P1 K1 (probably the latter if you’re on Row 20 on the reverse side but it needs to keep continuity of any rib you’ve already done).

So Rib2 is K1 P1 or P1 K1.

Hope this makes sense!

The rib you have been doing on this pattern is K2P2 therefore rib 4 will be K2P2.
Rib 2 Work 2 will be eg K2 P2together, following what makes sense with what you've already knitted.

I guess this means you have to be very careful on subsequent rows if you are stool in rib. (To keep running rows lined up it would need to be Row 1 K2 P2 together, Row 2 K1 P2 ...IYSWIM!

It’s not written very clearly - can you write out Row 19?

Rib can mean many combinations of knit and purl stitches, usually but not always the same number of knits as purls. It makes a stretchy sections here the knits stack up in columns, and so do the purl stitches.

My socks start with K2 P2 rib.

*where, not here.

Does rib 4 mean k2, p2?

I’d take it to mean: k,p,k,p

So what does rib 2 mean?

k,p

Why is the rib 2, work 2 tog in brackets??

The bit inside the brackets is the bit you repeat 21 times.

So:
(Rib 2, k2tog) 3 times would be:

Rib 2, k2tog, Rib 2, k2tog, Rib 2, k2tog

If you are still confused I recommend joining Ravelry and asking there, because people will be able to explain it in different ways. You’ll also be able to look at photographs of finished items which might make it clearer in your head, if you know what you’re aiming for.

When it says (work 2 tog) I’d take that to mean knit or purl 2 together, according to whether according to the pattern, they’d would have been k or p stitches.

So if you’re doing k2, p2 rib, and the pattern says, rib 4, work 2 tog, to me that would mean, k2, p2, k2 tog. (and then just p the next 2)

Or the other way around, if it’s p2, k2, rib.

See I would interpret slightly differently because of their use of the phrase "work2tog" rather than "k2tog" ,,,

If the standard rib you have done to this point is K1 P1 K1 P1, then to me the phrase "Rib 2, work 2 tog, repeat" would mean: K1 P1 K2tog P1 K1 P2tog K1 P1 K2tog P1 K1 P2tog and so on, thereby still maintaining the alternatiing K and P stitches.

The previous poster (Gettinglike ....) has pretty much said the same thing - you need to maintain the rhythm of the rib but remembering to do 2 stiches together.

Thank you everyone . I think I get it now!

My twentieth row may be a bit wonky as I already have too many stitches but after this it goes to doing full rows in either knit or purl so I should be ok for a while.

You are all very kind - thank you again!

Are you sure row 2 doesn’t start K5 p2...?
(Or row 1 ends with K5)?

In rib a knit stitch on the right side (rows 1, 3, 5....) has to be worked as a purl stitch on the wrong side (2, 4, 6...) to get the columns to line up.

Id say they are using 'rib' to mean 'in the rib pattern already used' so if its using k2p2 rib then stick with that.

Then when they say rib 2, it probably means EITHER k2 or p2, whichever fits in this row of knitting, to stay in the k2p2 ribbing - it will vary depending on the size of the sweater so some would be k2 and some would be p2 if they were making a bigger or smaller garment.

If in doubt, look at what the next row is going to be.

If the next row is going to be K2p2 ribbing, then you want the previous row to set up for that.

Hello Chamomile here's some advice from an old fogey, but I see that Mauve has beaten me to it.

It looks like the start of the row has 7 stitches, then knit 2 sts tog and the bit in brackets is repeated 21 times - so you may want to mark off with a pencil in the margin of the pattern BUT you can see when you've get to the last few stitches: knit 2 sts tog, 7 sts left on the unworked needle - this last bit being a reverse of the first bit.

What is the rest of the pattern like for rib? If it's single k1 p1 then it looks like you just need to continue in the same manner. And of course you should have 78 sts at the end of the row. Does the description of the jumper say anything about it being in single or double rib?

I am also spending an exciting Saturday evening knitting a jumper. I've been knitting for 60 (yes 60) years on and off, mainly off and I don't believe you can make a mistake that I haven't already made. Or indeed make a bigger arse of it than I have at times. Anyway, happy knitting, remember you can always undo and have another go and with chunky wool it grows faster.

And don't forget that if you're not sure if the rib stitch is a knit or a purl - the knit stitches look like a 'v' and the purl stitches look like a 'blob' or a pearl. If you end up throwing your work across the room in a mad temper you are not alone.

1st row k5, p2, k2, p2, rep from to last 3 sts, k3.
2nd row k3, p2, k2, p2, rep from to last 3 sts, k3.
20th row. K3, rib 4, work 2 tog, (rib 2, work 2 tog) 21 times, rib 4, k3. 78 sts.
-
I don't agree that rib has to be K1P1. It can be any number of K & P stitches, even different numbers for K than for P, surely?

Compare 2nd & 20th rows, because they're both even numbered so the same side of the work will be facing you. Both start K3. Then 4 sts in rib, i.e. P2 K2. For the next 2 sts on the 2nd row you'd P them individually; on the 20th row you P them together, losing a stitch in the process.

Then you do 'rib 2' which is K2, following the pattern of stitches on every row up to the 20th row. Then you P2 together again, losing another stitch. Repeat that (K2, P2 tog) up to the last 7 sts, then K2 P2 K3 & you should have 78 sts. So you've lost 22 sts across the row, which implies you started with 90 sts. Is that right?

That's how I'd interpret it. Have a close look at any photos & see if that's how it looks: that the rib pattern carries on through that row. What happens in the pattern & photo after the 20th row?

Cross-posted. I see it goes into stocking stitch. I'd say definitely keep to the rhythm of the previous 19 rib rows & just P2 together across the 20th row.

Not sure what you should do with the extra stitches.

Best of luck. PS crochet is much easier to unpick. Just saying...