@KitKatKong you're right that other systems aren't perfect either. I have friends and family all over the world and I hear the good and bad from them. I've a number of friends and relatives in aus for example and they have been complaining that the system there is becoming worse/less well managed than they're used to.
The tories want to extract profit from everything they can get their grubby mitts on
Has ever been thus. They're not interested in running the country in a way that benefits the working people except in terms of ensuring they stay productive and aren't a "burden" they are and always have been the party that represents the interests of the independently wealthy and large corporations.
Very true. Thatchers care in the community springs to mind!
Yep! That was a monumental fuck up! I was mid training when that came in and every hcp I discussed it with said it was a disaster in the making and they weren't wrong.
@minatrina those of us who've said - generally speaking - the young are less aware of the issues are meaning those young, fit and in generally good health who simply by the nature of that status haven't yet experienced much of the nhs. Of course there are sick and disabled youngsters who will have a different perspective, my own dd being one of those. I also have a few older relatives who've been LUCKY enough to not have had much dealings with the nhs too and frankly they live in la-la land as far as how they THINK it works goes. They think you just rock up to your gp having got an appointment easily that morning and the gp then listens and takes you seriously and refers you to a specialist within that appointment if a specialist is necessary. They are all white, appear to be middle class now (but were born working class) 2 of them are men and the woman is child free by choice so they haven't even dealt with the nhs from a pregnancy/childbirth experience. Whenever any of the rest of us try and tell them about our experiences they can be quite dismissive and disbelieving which is frustrating as hell!
Plus he [Blair] confused people about what left wing actually meant for generations to come.
Totally agree with this
They [patients who use a& me inappropriately] are a minority and part of the problem here is actually access to health care, which actually comes down to the structure of the NHS as well as funding
Definitely!
I've lived in parts of the Uk where it's very difficult to get a gp, or a dentist or an optician even resulting in patients using a&e inappropriately - because they've no other choice!
A healthy population needs a fantastic primary health service on many levels and we just don't.
I think a major problem is our attitude/approach (as a country)
It's reactive rather than preventive. We wait until people are seriously in pain/ill before anything is done for them. Would be far better to have a preventive approach including annual complete health checks for all. Spot problems BEFORE they become lengthy, debilitating and very difficult and EXPENSIVE to treat.
The excuse usually given for not taking a preventive approach is cost when long term it would absolutely save money.
What some practices are doing is declining to take on previously paid-for activity that is not in the core contract (eg enhanced services) or stopping activity that isn't funded or contracted at all (eg blood tests, ear syringing).
Which frankly goes against the entire ethos of the nhs and should never have been allowed to develop.
When private gps at the inception of the nhs refused to participate properly and fully in the new system - but still wanted the money! - they should have been used on a temporary basis only and plans and procedures put in place to train and employ fully nhs gps to replace them. I have a strong feeling if that had happened many of the resistant gps would have seen they would be losing many of their customers and would then have likely come around to being fully within the nhs. It was a game of chicken and the govt then gave in too easily and subsequent govts have not done much better - of all colours.
@RosesAndHellebores thank you for posting cost. Another area where our govts have failed us is in allowing private healthcare insurers to have a litany of excluded conditions. I would probably not be able to get private healthcare at a reasonable price due to a long list of pre-existing conditions. The only way I could have avoided that is if I had started with private healthcare when I was 13!
I've just tried to get a rough idea but to get quotes I have to give my personal contact info which I'm assuming they then use to bombard you with sales calls, spam etc - no thanks!
From a brief look inc on which? Where I am a member none of my main conditions would be covered, not just under pre-existing clauses but because private healthcare simply refuses to deal with certain conditions - eg asthma
That absolutely should not be allowed
@Nat6999 sorry for all you have been and are going through. Absolutely should not have happened. A constant issue with gps in my experience too this adamant reluctance to refer to a specialist. And it's not because they think it's unnecessary it's a combination of cost and crappy NICE guidelines in many cases that seem clearly to me to have been designed by neither hcps with recent practical experience nor people who've experienced the conditions. It's a farce
@Seasidemumma77 very good points/ideas. What the hell their IT system is I don't know but it's shit! I've twice been prescribed medication I'm allergic to. One time I noticed myself and told the dr, another it was sheer luck the pharmacist noticed (it was prescribed under a new brand name I didn't know) - and yes I do mean allergic not a preference I'm allergic to penicillin and twice was prescribed it by 2 different drs. That pharmacist literally saved my life. Mistakes like that shouldn't be possible and certainly not twice in one year!
Re point 3 - did you ever see a documentary that was made some years ago where a business consultant was reviewing how a hospital was run and he was horrified at the waste, stupid decisions and poor running? Iirc one of the things he noticed was operating theatres only being used 4 days a week. When he asked why he was told they were closed on Fridays so the consultant surgeons could get in their tee time! And the person telling him this wasn't joking/being sarcastic.
@Moraxella those supposed reasons could all be addressed by better funding, more staff and better organisation. Yes would cost more initially but in the long term would save the country even more money by reducing waiting lists and getting patients operated on and functioning better faster.
@EmeraldShamrock where does that irish system leave people like me? I'm almost 50, disabled, mentally ill and unable to work and on benefits. Not sure I want the answer but I'm asking anyway.
@ActonSquirrel if you are under the impression that the tories aren't also fully on the twaw bandwagon AND deeply misogynistic anyway including when it comes to health and social care you're sadly mistaken. Who do you think started all this recent self identification crap? Who is implementing it already in practical terms? They've been much more underhand about it but it is absolutely the tories to blame too. I don't think ANY of the major political parties AREN'T drinking the koolaid on that one!
I think the care you get should be tiered depending on what you have paid in.
Extremely callous and frankly stupid idea.
The people who need the most care are those least able to work and contribute. How would this work with children born with severe disabilities for example? Or those with chronic conditions that limit/prevent their ability to work?
I also think their should be lifestyle considerations. E.g. if you are obese you can't just keep having free type 2 diabetes drugs.
Again - more research is indicating that even type 2 has more of a genetic than a lifestyle basis, there's also some research which appears to be finding that it might be that type 2 CAUSES a slower metabolism and therefore weight gain, water retention etc rather than being caused BY being overweight.
And would you also apply such "worthiness" judgments to drivers, motorcyclists, sports enthusiasts, people who drink alcohol but not alcoholics etc?
It's a terrible system that those who pay least in are more likely to take more out as health responsibility is worse in poorer communities.
Wow! Are you even aware of the many multiple issues that make it harder for the poorest in society to achieve and maintain good health? This seems a shockingly derogatory and prejudiced comment
@SchrodingersImmigrant Are you talking Blair's Labour was the time you immigrated? Blair was honestly just Tory lite you're right to some degree re separating the organisation from the staff, but some of the issues are staff based.
Can you imagine having to walk past people dying in the street on the way to the shop.
Already happening Thanks to cuts to public services all round
I only have experience of the Swiss system (in Europe at least) but it works well.
I see this kind of comment frequently. Those who post them never have knowledge or more importantly experience of how very low or non earners are treated in those systems and how accessible healthcare is for them.
@onlychildhamster I agree I absolutely don't trust tories to ensure the low paid and unemployed will still have access to decent healthcare under a privatised or even co-pay type system
Yet you also say
I cannot imagine if UK had an insurance system, it would go from 'free healthcare' to american style health insurance. Thats two ends of the spectrum.
You really believe the tories WOULDN'T move to a USA system? When they have already been apparently machinating that way?
I certainly don't!
@wonkylegs I agree the nhs as an idea in principle is fantastic and many of the staff working within it are too - I used to be one. But in certain ways it is not working well or as well as it could at the moment. There are key areas that need to be overhauled I would say particularly primary care and as you say where it intersects with social care - a long term issue I am well aware of having worked mostly in elderly care myself plus the experiences I've had with elderly relatives.
We need to hold onto it but it also needs to improve massively.
My experiences with secondary and tertiary care have on the whole been excellent.
My experiences with primary care have largely been absolutely abysmal and have been since the early 90's