To think that this lack of flexibility is just ridiculous?

[Sweetwatermelons]

Have a bit of a predicament. There is a lot going on here at the moment.

Seven years ago my dad died very suddenly, and he left a flat he bought to my brother and I. In that time, to be fair we’ve never had any problems letting it out as it’s a lovely property in a good location. However, we did get a bit stung a while ago and somehow ended up owing money to the local council.

I rang them and gave them my address and asked for a form to be sent to allow us arrangement to pay, as I was about to leave my job.

Unfortunately they sent it to the flat instead. I forgot about it (which I recognise is my error.) We then got contact from bailiffs who absolutely wouldn’t discuss any flexibility. They decided on a minimum amount p/m and it’s pretty high for me at the moment. And I genuinely don’t know how I’m going to afford it this month (not a begging thread.)

I am due back to work next month. AIBU to think more flexibility should be granted? And my main question is where I stand legally.

That’s exactly it @Wishingwell75 although step change can’t really help, it’s not that sort of debt really.

Get a budget planner online and list all your income and outgoings. Give this to them and show them what you can realistically afford. If its for council tax debt though, shouldn't the tenants be liable? Also contact a debt company, many stepchange or the likes. My concern would be additional bailiff and court fees.

Sorry just missed your update about step change.. although they could help you with a budgeting plan and advice on how to deal with bailiffs maybe?

They aren’t interested @AwaAnBileYerHeid

They’ve set a minimum and I have to pay it. Apparently!

Suggest you ask for practical advice here: forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/debt-free-wannabe

No. You need to settle the debt as a priority. Get a loan and get it paid off. Or sell the property if you can't afford the upkeep.

I can’t magic money @Viviennemary

Realistically by the time my brother has been tracked down, forced to sell, the property sold and the money gone to this debt we are probably looking at several months by which point I am working. So that’s a rather daft bit of advice.

Why can't you get a loan? You own a second property so you have lots of equity. Council tax is to pay for vital public services, why do you feel that others should subsidise your contribution as a property owner.

I still just don’t get it. Your minimum payment is £160, and you can’t afford it this month but soon will be able to pay the whole thing off. So what CAN you pay out of the £160, and how can you get the rest - either from your brother who seems to be profiting from this property and giving you nothing, family, friends, selling something, pawning something, getting another credit card, increasing the credit limit on your current card, short term loan…just exactly how much do you need to find because it seems like the whole thing is a bit of a non issue. You’re worried they’ll take your car but you won’t try to get the money any way you can just to pay them off? Makes no sense.

Think in your position if I couldn’t get the cash any other way I’d sell my car myself and pay off the whole balance, then when I was working buy another one. Anything to get the bailiffs off my back. I’d not be considering defaulting on a debt.

But the point is you have an asset but are refusing to pay a debt. I don't think courts will look favourably upon this kind of debt on a second home. There is no reason you can't get a loan. Bailiffs and taken to court will be extremely bad against your credit rating. You simply are not taking it seriously.

I had a (somewhat) similar situation and Council Tax Advisors www.counciltaxadvisors.co.uk/ who were amazing. They communicated with the bailiffs, set up a payment plan which was genuinely affordable, got me back in touch with the council directly and generally just calmed down a really stressful situation. They also made sure I was only paying the correct amount as the bailiffs did try to overcharge me and the council didn't correct this when the bill was passed back. Couldn't recommend them more if the service is still the same. It was all free too. Best of luck.

You own half a flat that you normally rent out yet you can't afford to pay a debt? Just sell the flat or put the rent you currently get from letting it out towards the debt.

The OP hasn't once said she doesn't think she has to pay.
She's saying she can't pay at this moment in time but will be able to when she starts work.
Her point is that council tax debt is the only debt that you can still go to prison for not paying ( that is not what's going to happen) but it's also the most difficult to sort out because the companies the council's use are totally inflexible.
I think things need to change because I have seen working families who are on the bones of their arse and having to use food banks being hassled by very large unpleasant men - honestly think of the worst club bouncer and multiply them by ten! It sounds cliché but I think the job attracts a certain type of person, you'd have to be because I don't imagine it's that well paid.
I have dealt with 3 different councils and maybe 6 different debt collection companies and they were all almost identical!
Unless you have had the misfortune to deal with them, it's difficult to understand how rigid they can be and also how scary.

The problem you have is that bailiffs will have been told by the court to recover (and you're a second property owner and so hardly seem like a needy case).

You need to have the money available to make payment in order to prevent the bailiffs entering. Presumably the debt is in joint names though and so your brother is equally likely to have to deal with the bailiffs?

OP you've got a wealth of really great advice on here but I'm not sure what else MN can offer?

You say you've tried CAB, step change etc.

Have you joined the FB group that's been mentioned?

Have you asked the bailiffs for a statement of accounts to check they aren't overcharging you?

Have you asked for their bank details to make a payment?

Have you tried reaching out to your brother and asking, in this instance, if he can contribute a bit?

Have you got things you could sell to raise the funds?

Have you emailed the bailiffs stating you are trying to make a payment of XX but they aren't giving you details so you have a paper trail?

Have you tried going onto money saving expert as suggested?

As I said, loads of great advice but you seem to be focusing on what you can't do rather than the helpful suggestions you've had.

You should contact your brother and tell him that the current arrangement is not sustainable. THere is a current outstanding council tax bill that realistically you both owe.
What happens if the current tenants run off leaving other unpaid utilities? If something needs repairing?
THis is why many landlords rent with council tax included to prevent them being taken to court as they pay directly.

Realistically by the time my brother has been tracked down

Whoooooa - are you saying you don't know where your brother is? The brother who's receiving ALL the profit from the property YOU'VE gone into debt for?

You know what they say OP - that is quite the massive drip feed!
And don't say it's not relevant because it really is. You basically want to magic up a solution that doesn't exist because you've got into a godawful mess you don't want to discuss here. No-one can help you unless you face the facts. I'm really sorry and I know you're suffering but you're not helping yourself or looking at this properly.

I just don’t see why some flexibility can’t be applied to the situation,

But it already has been with the payment plan.

You don’t seem to want help OP, you seem to want someone to say you don’t have to pay the debt you owe. It isn’t going to happen.

It sounds like you are not really interested in finding ways to pay your debt but only in ways to delay the payment. This is the issue IMO.

You could

• get a loan and pay it back next month as you say you will have the cash.
• ask your brother to pay out of the money he receives from the property.
• cut down on other expenses this month and pay.

But basically, you are a home owner (two properties if I understand correctly?), who is at fault of not paying council tax, just take responsibility instead of saying it is unfair.

A single mum who has nothing to her name, someone who suddenly can’t work due to illness, someone recently widowed, of course there should be ways to delay payments as they genuinely can’t pay even in good faith. In your case not so much.

I just don’t see why some flexibility can’t be applied to the situation, given that my financial circumstances are currently dire but are about to improve. I sound really whiny there but it does baffle me.

you were offered a payment plan by the council

they sent the letters etc to the flat - but you knew there was a payment plan in place and didn't follow this up or make payments online, over the phone etc

council tax is a demand and not a debt or bill - and as far as tax goes its a demand that has to be paid and ignorance isn't counted as an excuse (rightly or wrongly that is how the system works)

you had the flexibility of the payment plan and you defaulted - so the council tax was taken to court and a liability order on it, you still didn't pay though and so the council then at this stage send to bailiffs

now all of a sudden you want flexibility as its gone to bailiffs

you have the income from a second property, whats happening to that income between you and your brother?

I can understand why the council are being what you deem as "inflexible". They tried to work with you in the first place and you didn't enage, so its understandable they are being tough on you now.

You state you'd stuggle to get a loan, but, I'm sure a payday loan company would be able to set in.

I've had a quick look at Fast Loan UK, if you borrowed £160 and paid it back in 28days you'd be paying £195.84. If I were in your shoes I'd take the £45.84 hit so you can move on with your life.

The bailiffs cannot remove anything that doesn't belong to you personally, such as anything that is rented or on HP.
So for example, if you're buying a car on a finance plan or a TV is rented then they cannot take those items.
A vehicle log book unfortunately, isn't proof of ownership.

I've been in a similar situation and I sympathise because no, there is no flexibility.

I paid by standing order, a small weekly amount, directly to the council until I could afford more, they wouldn't speak to me, kept directing me to the bailiffs, but I don't think they should be refusing payment, though they do, to force you into dealing with bailiffs.
I got the payment details from my council tax bill and just paid weekly what I could afford until I could up it, sent an email saying what I was doing and I didn't deal with the bailiffs at all. I didn't ignore it, and I did pay, and although the council wouldn't accept a lower payment or talk to me directly, they couldn't stop me paying directly into their bank account or sending them an email (so I had proof) explaining my circumstances and what I was paying and when.
It worked for me as the council took back the debt and I deal with them now, pay them directly and bailiffs aren't involved.
I'd urge you to seek advice though, citizens advice I found wanted me to deal with the bailiffs, which I wasn't going to do having been stung by them before, I spoke to a few different places and found a site called Legal Beagles and money saving expert which really knew their stuff and helped, you really need advice before you do anything, anything except pay something that is, pay something, anything, today by bank transfer or standing order.

They won't not pursue this because you're telling them you can pay in a month or 2 months time, they might even believe you, but they still will pursue the debt while it's outstanding and no payment arrangements are in place - from their pov you haven't shown that you are going to pay this by even making small but regular payments to 'show willing' as it were. I get that it's crap, and I know how frustrating it is when you just hit a dead end from the council "We aren't dealing with you at all" and from the bailiffs "Pay it or we're taking your stuff" when you don't have the means to pay it, but this is unfortunately how it is and by not paying anything for the next couple of months, the situation will get worse and not better, I've been there.
The Facebook group, mse, and legal beagles are good places to start with regards to your rights regarding the bailiffs too and rights of entry etc.