AIBU to not trust this dog

[Alis1beelbals]

Hi I’ve posted elsewhere but not much input and this seems a busy group!! I’ve had dogs in the past always terrior types and high energy so not sure if this is normal behaviour for a cockerpoo or very worrying or can be corrected?
My husband thinks I’m overreacting and being unreasonable but
I have young children and two are under 5
and our cockerpoo is now two she is quite a anxious dog she looks worried most of the time when out walking and is submissive to other dogs and will tuck tail and bum in if approached and tries to run away but as soon as she realise they mean no harm she will play ok with the little ones she’s also similar with people that approach her thinking they can pet her
Anyway she’s always been a bit obsessive over any kind of food and treats from a really early age like even at ten weeeks she’d snarl at the kids if they approached her while having any kind of dropped food she’d found ,she’s done it with the eldest child and myself too it seems to be growling we had some training come and did positive training for the food so she is better than she was and I can walk around and go near the bowl and I keep adding food so she knows
However I still feel like she’s not to be trusted and yesterday twice she’s growled (but not bit) two of the kids as one of them dropped some food and and they went too near
The other incident was when my elder one loaded the dish washer and food was on a plate she tried licking it of and they tried to tell her to move away hence the snapping back
I just feel worried and I have never had a dog like it before , seems obsessed with food and is never full , also she is timid and I panic every time we have guests she is not great with new people and someone’s twelve year old tried to pet her as we were talking and she backed into a corner and started snarling and barking and growling at him luckily he backed away and I’ve made sure she’s away if people come
But I feel bad like I can no longer trust her to be around the children and other friends and she shut away , but at the same time I can’t allow someone to be injured because of her! Do you think this will escalate? Has anyone else been though this kind of thing? Did it get worse? Can I ever trust her? Obviously I’ve consulted trainers and they’ve helped to some extent and said it is fear based, but I myself fear “management “ might fail and one day she might flip? If anyone has any more advice on training someone mentioned a behaviouralist but they are all full massive waiting lists etc so I’d be really grateful
Thanks

@Alis1beelbals

Hi I’ve posted elsewhere but not much input and this seems a busy group!! I’ve had dogs in the past always terrior types and high energy so not sure if this is normal behaviour for a cockerpoo or very worrying or can be corrected? My husband thinks I’m overreacting and being unreasonable but I have young children and two are under 5 and our cockerpoo is now two she is quite a anxious dog she looks worried most of the time when out walking and is submissive to other dogs and will tuck tail and bum in if approached and tries to run away but as soon as she realise they mean no harm she will play ok with the little ones she’s also similar with people that approach her thinking they can pet her Anyway she’s always been a bit obsessive over any kind of food and treats from a really early age like even at ten weeeks she’d snarl at the kids if they approached her while having any kind of dropped food she’d found ,she’s done it with the eldest child and myself too it seems to be growling we had some training come and did positive training for the food so she is better than she was and I can walk around and go near the bowl and I keep adding food so she knows However I still feel like she’s not to be trusted and yesterday twice she’s growled (but not bit) two of the kids as one of them dropped some food and and they went too near The other incident was when my elder one loaded the dish washer and food was on a plate she tried licking it of and they tried to tell her to move away hence the snapping back I just feel worried and I have never had a dog like it before , seems obsessed with food and is never full , also she is timid and I panic every time we have guests she is not great with new people and someone’s twelve year old tried to pet her as we were talking and she backed into a corner and started snarling and barking and growling at him luckily he backed away and I’ve made sure she’s away if people come But I feel bad like I can no longer trust her to be around the children and other friends and she shut away , but at the same time I can’t allow someone to be injured because of her! Do you think this will escalate? Has anyone else been though this kind of thing? Did it get worse? Can I ever trust her? Obviously I’ve consulted trainers and they’ve helped to some extent and said it is fear based, but I myself fear “management “ might fail and one day she might flip? If anyone has any more advice on training someone mentioned a behaviouralist but they are all full massive waiting lists etc so I’d be really grateful Thanks

I forgot to add she’s not allowed upstairs or on any furniture and has a utility room for her crate and beds if it’s relevant!!

You will get lots of posters coming on and saying that you need to prioritise the dog and tell everyone to stay away from her etc. They’ll tell you children should be taught XYZ about dogs, etc.

However, my view is that family life isn’t like that. And with DC the ages of yours and visiting friends and relatives, it just isn’t easy to run a home prioritising the dog and ‘teaching’ everyone about the dog. Family dogs need to be very, very reliable.

Trust your instincts. If the dog can’t be trained, I would rehome to a more suitable environment. Do not make your family life beholden to your dogs behaviour.

You need to contact a good behaviourist. Resource guarding often stems from insecurity and can be trained.

But if that feels like too much, too long, then rehoming might be your safest option.

Dog owner, bouncy, hard mouthed, stubborn bull terrier. I know how much work has to go into training out what anxiety puts in.

Never ever trust a pet 100%.
With regards to the issues you’re having I do think they could be overcome with a behaviourist and training. But you’re 100% right to not trust your dog, you are sensible.

She's insecure and fearful. She needs to feel safe and I think you need to call in a behaviourist.

And you should let the breeder know that this is a problem, so that they can consider if they should stop breeding from that line.

Thanks so much!! I think the advice you have all given is great I’m going to see what we can do regarding a behavioural specialist and training and then if I feel like it is not working or too much management for every day life and that I can’t ever relax in my own home then I will look at other options
Thanks again

Cockers are known for resource guarding so it’s not an uncommon problem with cockerpoos. Due to their appearance people think they are ready bears but they need form handling and management as both parent strains are high energy, high intelligence dogs.

It can be sorted, but will be hard work as should have been done when she was a pup. You need to invest in some serious, ongoing training and creating rules for the kids and her that help her feel safe, she sounds very anxious and that will make all these behaviours worse.

They can be lovely dogs, but aren’t “easy” as people often think. Hope you persevere.

Typos! Ready= teddy & form=firm…

Our cockapoo was a resource guarder, it took about a year of consistency but he is now 3 and fine. It can be done

I would never trust any dog with young children

Training will help. But just to say it's a good thing she is growling- it's a warning. Dogs also exhibit other signs when they aren't happy- look up dog body language. It can be very subtle.

The important thing for now is to listen to her and recognise the signs and back off.

Cockapoo’s can suffer with resource gaurding and you need advice from a behaviourist not mumsnet

What a way to live. Get rid. Your kids (and all children) come first.

Cockerpoos are known for resource guarding - it's a breed trait that appears in some lines, and comes from the cocker side of the family.

You do need to see a behaviourist - this is a behaviour issue not a training one. It's important to know that dog behaviour (and training) is a completely unregulated industry, so literally anyone can call themselves a behaviourist (or trainer).

For that reason, it's important to get someone who is properly qualified (NB not all qualifications are created equal - yes, this is a complete minefield) such as
apbc.org.uk/find-an-apbc-member/
www.asab.org/ccab-register

If you have good pet insurance, which cover behaviour, they will cover the costs.

In the meantime, try and avoid creating situations where the dog feels the need to guard items - feed the dog in a room alone. Keep the dog out of rooms where you're cooking / eating food / loading the dishwasher (using baby gates) and / or tell the kids accept that if the dog has some food, it now belongs to the dog - in the grand scheme of things, a dog eating some dropped pizza isn't the end of the world. This will meant the dog has fewer opportunities to practice the behaviour and ingrain it further.

Never, ever tell a dog (any dog!) off for growling. It's the last ditch warning they have before you get into a snap and / or bite. If you tell a dog off for growling, you tend to arrive at a situation where the dog doesn't give a warning anymore, but just goes straight for the bite.

You would probably all benefit from learning about dog body language. I've never understood why we all spend so much time talking about dog training, but very little trying to understand what the dog is telling us. Forget everything you thought you knew - a waggy tail isn't always a sign of a happy dog (merely of emotional arousal). This is a good video to start you off - it will help you to recognise the lower level signals where your dog is telling you she's uncomfortable

Everything everyone has said above about getting a good, qualified trainer involved ASAP and that resource guarding is not uncommon with this mix and can escalate massively if not dealt with properly (you are not wrong to be cautious).
In the meantime, if food is a flash point, make sure dogs and kids are separated whenever there is any food around.

@PersonaNonGarter

You will get lots of posters coming on and saying that you need to prioritise the dog and tell everyone to stay away from her etc. They’ll tell you children should be taught XYZ about dogs, etc.

However, my view is that family life isn’t like that. And with DC the ages of yours and visiting friends and relatives, it just isn’t easy to run a home prioritising the dog and ‘teaching’ everyone about the dog. Family dogs need to be very, very reliable.

Trust your instincts. If the dog can’t be trained, I would rehome to a more suitable environment. Do not make your family life beholden to your dogs behaviour.

I agree with this. This dog isn’t suited to living with young children. It’s easy enough to say ‘keep it away when they’ve got food’, but young children ALWAYS have food. Even standing next to the dishwasher is a bite risk. It sounds like this dog is going to need a lot of work to reduce aggression, and even then I wouldn’t trust it. You’re going to get a lot of hysteria on here over rehoming your dog though. On mn it’s always the child’s fault if they get bit. An op got torn apart the other day for rehoming a dog that attacked a child. The child’s made the apparently grave mistake of trying to draw on the dog with a piece of chalk, so what of course they deserved to be mauled 🙄

be very careful with the kids here. Resource guarding can be retrained but it is hard work!

1st job. Make clear to the children not to go near her when she is eating. Keep her out of the room when they are eating in case of food droppage.

2nd job. Take her food bowl away. Feed her by hand for a period of time

IF you decide to rehome then please give her to a rescue so that this issue can be sorted

Personally I think you should rehome her. It sounds like she needs a nice quiet, peaceful home away from lots of people. While resource guarding can be trained out of a dog you can never trust her or any dog for that matter. If she were to bite one of your children you would find it incredibly difficult to rehome her whereas if you do it now before any incidents take place there is a good possibility she would be rehomed with her quirks in mind to an experience owner who can work with her. A dog with a bite history very rarely has a good outcome and having children so young you can never guarantee they won’t do something you have asked them not to. Personally I wouldn’t have a dog like that around my young son

There is no shame in admitting there is a better placed home out there for her, sometimes dogs have needs different to what we can offer them.

I wish you all the best

[quote DeathByWalkies]Cockerpoos are known for resource guarding - it's a breed trait that appears in some lines, and comes from the cocker side of the family.

You do need to see a behaviourist - this is a behaviour issue not a training one. It's important to know that dog behaviour (and training) is a completely unregulated industry, so literally anyone can call themselves a behaviourist (or trainer).

For that reason, it's important to get someone who is properly qualified (NB not all qualifications are created equal - yes, this is a complete minefield) such as
apbc.org.uk/find-an-apbc-member/
www.asab.org/ccab-register

If you have good pet insurance, which cover behaviour, they will cover the costs.

In the meantime, try and avoid creating situations where the dog feels the need to guard items - feed the dog in a room alone. Keep the dog out of rooms where you're cooking / eating food / loading the dishwasher (using baby gates) and / or tell the kids accept that if the dog has some food, it now belongs to the dog - in the grand scheme of things, a dog eating some dropped pizza isn't the end of the world. This will meant the dog has fewer opportunities to practice the behaviour and ingrain it further.

Never, ever tell a dog (any dog!) off for growling. It's the last ditch warning they have before you get into a snap and / or bite. If you tell a dog off for growling, you tend to arrive at a situation where the dog doesn't give a warning anymore, but just goes straight for the bite.

You would probably all benefit from learning about dog body language. I've never understood why we all spend so much time talking about dog training, but very little trying to understand what the dog is telling us. Forget everything you thought you knew - a waggy tail isn't always a sign of a happy dog (merely of emotional arousal). This is a good video to start you off - it will help you to recognise the lower level signals where your dog is telling you she's uncomfortable [/quote]
Excellent post

I got a rescue 10 years ago and realised he was a food guarder. The first night I tried to get him out of the kitchen and I thought he was going to bite me. My children were all between 2 and 10.
He has always been fed in his crate with door closed, same eith chews and treats. I worried he would take food from children if they were eating on sofa next to him but he never has. Any food that falls on the floor no one tries to take from him.
He has bitten me when I have thoughtlessly put my arm in his cage to retrieve something he has pinched but I really should have known better. He has never bitten my children or even growled at them but he has never been fully trusted like my other dogs are and I have never let him be around visiting children.
It's stressful in that we've been on accident prevention watch for 10 or so years but he's an old man now, 13 or so, and we've loved looking after him.
Good luck whatever you decide. Children get older and more responsible but you'll feel dreadful if something goes wrong when you could have avoided it.

Cockapoos are known for resource guarding we have a resource guarded too and a young child.

To start with we have baby gates separating dog from food sources e.g can't go in kitchen or lounge if eating. We also make sure that if we are out and about/at a friends that we bring a puzzle toy to pop food in and keep her engaged/a chew such as a pigs ear which will take her time to eat.

Secondly we are teaching DS even though he is very little not to go near the dog if she's eating/if she has food.

Hi can you give a pigs ear? I fear I would dare not as it’d be precious to guard and take too long to eat! We have baby gates and a crate and seperate utility room she sleeps in, she has warned most of us but thankfully never yet lashed out, I can go near her and bowl and she no longer growls to me but I definitely do not trust her with children or others regarding food
Strange but she also has never snatched food off the kids either and I have taught her to drop and leave that she does on command so if I were to drop a whole plate of food or anything really if I say leave she backs up and doesn’t go for it
Not sure it’s relevant or not, however I definitely do not trust her