To think that an educational campaign from MN on the legal benefits of marriage would be a good thing?

[MargeGoesBowling]

Let me preface this by saying I have no religious or morale concerns about whether people are married or not. It’s not a judgement.

I accept that, in the event of a split, marriage doesn’t benefit the person who is in the stronger financial position coming into the marriage. There are plenty of women who are financially independent and much more solvent than their partners, so marriage could potentially have a downside for them.

Where an unmarried woman is working, paying into her own pension, has assets (even a jointly-owned property), she’s in a stronger position.

However, in the case of an unmarried couple, particularly where children are involved, and the woman has either given up work or gone part-time, she has left herself in a vulnerable position. Often, we see that she’s living in a house that her partner owns and has no claim on the property.

I see it so often on MN- “my partner doesn’t believe in marriage/he thinks marriage is only a piece of paper/weddings cost money/he’s a good man and would look after me if we split/he has me named in his will”.

Ultimately, when relationships break down, people aren’t at their most benevolent. Splits get nasty. Women get locked out of houses they don’t own, savings they thought were shared turn out to be in the man’s personal account and so are inaccessible. Or, even without a split, wills and assurance policies gets changed for various reasons.

Plus, there are the exceptional tax benefits.

Marriage isn’t a magic wand. Married women get screwed daily when the relationship ends, there is no doubt about that. However, they’re in a stronger position if there are shared assets, or the husband has a large pension or savings, often gained because the woman did the bulk of childcare and house-related work. It can mean that a woman has a better chance of remaining in the family home while the children are small.

Given the size and reach of MN, AIBU to think a campaign giving clear facts about what a legal marriage contract entails would be of benefit to woman, and mean they’re more educated on what’s involved, what it means for them, and the risk of dismissing it as “just a piece of paper”?

Common law doesn't exist in any real way. Mentioning it in pensions schemes, doesn't mean its a 'thing' or give the same protections as marriage, in the event of death or relationship break down.

I am not really sure, what the answer here is. I don't really think telling 11-16 year olds about the ins and outs of marriage vs cohabitation, is really going to influence them when they are years down the line, in love and 100% believe that 'he wouldn't do that to me'.

There's so many layers to this problem and it's not just lack of knowledge.

MN used to have a good information page about the differences between cohabitation and marriage

I can't find it any more - there used to be a non-shopping life/relationships content section. It seems to have gone.

I think that probably tells us enough about MNHQs attitude - content has thinned out and this sort of stuff has gone or is very well hidden

CAB has a good page - worth linking perhaps to all the 'but he says it's just a piece of paper' type threads? It might not help the OP directly, but it may well help stop other readers sleepwalking into vulnerable situations

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/living-together-marriage-and-civil-partnership/living-together-and-marriage-legal-differences/

l don't really think telling 11-16 year olds about the ins and outs of marriage vs cohabitation, is really going to influence them when they are years down the line, in love and 100% believe that 'he wouldn't do that to me'

Possibly not. But at least they would have some idea of the differences as well,as their rise-tinted glasses.

(Not a terribly good analogy, but: we don't stop teaching First Aid just because people will forget it all or might panic and do nothing. We teach it so people know the principles and some techniques and stand a chance of doing something effective)

I agree. DD year 10 had half a phse lesson on subject. I studied family law and have an interest. It’s amazing how many people think common law rights exist or are clueless to possible implications.

I think it is telling that this thread has attracted so few comments.

And 3 out of 10 think @MargeGoesBowling is being unreasonable... WTF???

@Aching1536

I guess we could do it without anyone knowing, purely for the legal benefits, but it would be nice if there was an alternative.

I think you mean a wedding is not for you - 'marriage' is purely the legal benefits, the rest is just for show. I didn't have a 'wedding' I got married, done and dusted in an hour.

I think an education campaign teaching about the benefits of financial independence and not buying into traditional gender roles would be better. Too many women think 'being married' will save them. The Relationships board is testimony to the many women who still live in poverty after divorce because they have traded jobs, careers income and security for a piece of paper and a ring on the finger.

@YetAnotherSpartacus

I think an education campaign teaching about the benefits of financial independence and not buying into traditional gender roles would be better. Too many women think 'being married' will save them. The Relationships board is testimony to the many women who still live in poverty after divorce because they have traded jobs, careers income and security for a piece of paper and a ring on the finger.

I totally agree.

I wouldn’t want my daughter to pick a partner based on their bank account size nor would I want my son to be seen as a walking wallet. Not to mention both should be able to parent, run a house and work equally.

I think knowing what marriage vows are is important, rather than all the focus on the big day many seem to have. I’ve seen so many divorces a few years after the big events and all that money that was wasted.

@meditrina

l don't really think telling 11-16 year olds about the ins and outs of marriage vs cohabitation, is really going to influence them when they are years down the line, in love and 100% believe that 'he wouldn't do that to me'

Possibly not. But at least they would have some idea of the differences as well,as their rise-tinted glasses.

(Not a terribly good analogy, but: we don't stop teaching First Aid just because people will forget it all or might panic and do nothing. We teach it so people know the principles and some techniques and stand a chance of doing something effective)

But that's why, those that want to keep upto date redo first aid training. Because people do forget.

Most people wouldn't be classed as knowledgeable on first aid if they did a course at age 11 and then didn't do anything else for 10/20 years. They also probably wouldn't even think of trying to put that knowledge to use.

I agree something needs to be publicised. Not sure if schools are the right place for it, iyswim.

I am convinced that alot of these women, who have fallen into this trap, do know they are less protected. But ignore it because they are in love and at that time, can't conceive that the man they love would behave so poorly if the relationship split up.

@FlowerArranger to be fair I think op is unreasonable, because she thinks MN should be the people to do the campagin. I don't think the op is unreasonable to think there should be a campaign. Just that I don't think MN is the right company to do this.

@YetAnotherSpartacus

I think an education campaign teaching about the benefits of financial independence and not buying into traditional gender roles would be better. Too many women think 'being married' will save them. The Relationships board is testimony to the many women who still live in poverty after divorce because they have traded jobs, careers income and security for a piece of paper and a ring on the finger.

I agree with this.

I know people who don't, but because they think it's telling women that they shouldn't ever be a sahp. But I think its more about knowing the particular risks, then making a decision.

And yes, marriage doesn't automatically guarantee you get enough money to be comfortable forever. That needs addressing too.

One of my closest friends got screwed in her divorce because he looked after all the finances. She knew nothing about what money he had stashed all over.

He is quite comfortable now. She isn't and it's devastating for her.

I got zero tax benefits from marriage so no idea how that’s supposed to benefit me? But I did get the house and will in due course be entitled to a chunk of the pension that my H paid into. My earning power has been massively cut by childcare responsibilities so I needed the financial protection of marriage.

I think the majority of women in this position know that they are vulnerable, but it isn’t their choice. And they know that if they force the issue, their partner will walk away. So whilst I agree that education on this is really important, it should be focused on maintaining financial independence in a way that doesn’t rely on the whim or magnanimity of a partner.

FWIW, I’ve watched four marriages/LTRs break down closely enough that I know the details of the financial settlement. Imo, in three of the four assets were split in a way that was deeply unfair to one person.

I think the majority of women in this position know that they are vulnerable, but it isn’t their choice

It is a choice though. No one has to have children, no one has to stop work or go part time by choice (not wanting to pay childcare costs still makes it a choice) etc. We are all responsible for our own actions and choices.

If both parties maintain financial independence then they are protected in the event of a split.

If it's taught in schools, it just leads to the natural conclusion on the part of the boys that they won't ever get married, then. And we can't exactly drag girls out for lessons to make sure they know they have to get their future boyfriends to marry them so they can get half the house and pension, really.

[quote squee123]@Aching1536 civil partnership? Wasn't there a case recently where a heterosexual couple won the right to a civil partnership?[/quote]
Oh wow, that's exactly what I described isn't it I always assumed this was the same as getting married. Just googled it. Definitely something to think about!
Maybe education could make people more aware of this option.

Or campaign for non marriage solutions? Making it easier to jointly share a house and sort out child maintenance to take time not earning due to children into account? Rather than force someone into an outdated institution to get those basic benefits