To be sad about houses being built on Greenfield sites

[Orangemochafrappacino]

Its rife in my village at the moment. There are a few brownfield sites but these seem to be being ignored and farmland is being snapped up for development instead.

The rulebook for this seems to be slowly being torn up by this current government and I'm now hearing stories of developers being able to purchase land on a forceful basis and even proceed building giant housing estates without proper planning permission.

Has anyone else noticed this in their local area? I understand houses need to be built but it seems completely nuts, we are going to have no farmland or trees left at this rate.

Within some conditions, local planning authorities can - but aren’t obliged to - decline applications which are similar to an application which has been refused within the previous two years. The planning practice guidance on making an application (available online) even says that the purpose of these powers is to inhibit repeat applications that the local planning authority believes are intended to wear down opposition.
I don’t think that’s sufficient. Eleven planning applications in 30 years would quite reasonably be classed as “intended to wear down opposition” yet it would be allowed. Especially when a planning application can take a year or more to process. We found ourselves fighting an application for perhaps 18 months, then we would have 6 months of peace, then they would reapply and the fight would start all over again. On and on, for 30 years. Imo it should be more like ten years before a developer can reapply for the same site.

One problem is that masses of farmland has already been sold to developers. So they will never give up on applying to have it built on.

Another danger spot is golf courses. Now, I don’t like golf or golf courses in particular, but at least they are green spaces with some wildlife living there. Golf is a dying pastime, cycling being the thing for modern middle-aged men, so two golf courses near me have been sold to developers.

As pp mentioned, the Conservatives will face a backlash in some areas over this. A bit odd electing the LibDem woman in Chesham & Amersham, however, as at national level they support HS2 and indeed rampant housebuilding. If anyone is in the house builders’ pockets, it’s the LibDems, at least where I live.

None of us are remainers anymore. Brexit happened, we've left, it's over. Everyone is just trying to move on and adjust to the new reality. No point still banging on about it, you won the war didn't you?

Some people will be in for a shock when immigration craters and yet there is still a huge housing problem because the problem isn't just demand but a greedy and incompetent government.

Oh and I rent so can't help you there

SilverOak - Yes, I think there are two issues here. Are the powers available to local planning authorities adequate and do they make use of the powers they’ve got?

The irony of people who have children complaining about houses being built.

Too many people in the world. People need places to live. People spaff out kids without a care in the world and then complain because their garden with a view of fields is now an estate.

You are the problem.

Declining birth rate has no bearing. Evidence on all factors, environment, housing type has no bearing.

As I said upthread, the NPPF has given the green light for a few well connected individuals to make as much money as possible in 10 years. Low interest rates and cartels have allowed this to happen. It is smash and grab. Remember Persimmon's boss taking a £75m bonus? That four acre field on the edge of your village has just gone to Developer plc and the farmer has £5m in the Halifax. More if its in the South East. They will pay 20% tax on that while you commute past to field to your job as a schoolteacher paying 40% on the top slice of your income.

Many people see buy-to-let as a pension too. Ridiculous really because taxpayers will not only have to fund state pensions of today's renters but also their housing benefit. If renters could buy houses they would pay those mortgages off before retirement. Meanwhile there has been something like ten tax changes since 2010 to eke more revenue out of residential housing. Makes no sense to be a landlord and by 2030 there may be an oversupply.

Wait, there are 300,000 people coming to the UK from Hong Kong. Now what knock-on effect will that have to support the housing market.

We need more houses and we need an equilibrium where average house prices match average wages. That is the levelling up we really need Boris. To show commitment, return the £60m of dirty money back to those developer donors. Bring in legislation to build decent housing, not boxes that have a shelf life of 50 years and crammed developments that will be tomorrow's ghettos. Who would have thought we would get ghettos in the shires, but we are sowing those seeds now.

When will it end? Not sure. If I knew how many of those 650 MPs had second homes or buy-to-lets it might be easier to guess. Even well placed journalists I know who write about these exact issues have a buy-to-let or two.

Local planning authorities have a 'Local Plan' where they will set out the places where housing can be built over a time period. If you want to object you need to write in when the next Local Plan is out to consultation. Look at the planning pages of your local planning authority.
Also, look for site notices usually on lamp posts etc which tell you when a planning application is in.

It isnt really the point of the thread, but I'm fairly sure it's people living much longer that's causing population to steadily increase rather than people having too many children. More generations co existing at the same time. And no, before you ask I'm not willing to top myself for that cause. Selling my house and moving elsewhere also wont solve the problem and I'm not sure why you're assuming that my house is 'lovely' just because this worries me! I also have no view of fields

The problem is the greed and incompetence at play.

Yes the Hong Kong issues have crossed my mind plus all the illegal immigration from Calais.

@Wauden well that’s a waste of time. Our “local plan” was for more houses than required “to be ahead of the game” . Thousands of objections and MP against, demonstrations… they were intransigent. Public consultation is only a sop.

Wait, there are 300,000 people coming to the UK from Hong Kong. Now what knock-on effect will that have to support the housing market.
Quite a few trying to escape the unrest in South Africa too. Anyone with a British parent, grandparent or spouse is going to be trying to get out. I have 15 family members there (a married couple who emigrated in the 60s plus adult children, their spouses and children). After the recent riots they are all claiming dual citizenship in order to come to the UK).

@Wauden

Local planning authorities have a 'Local Plan' where they will set out the places where housing can be built over a time period. If you want to object you need to write in when the next Local Plan is out to consultation. Look at the planning pages of your local planning authority. Also, look for site notices usually on lamp posts etc which tell you when a planning application is in.

Yep our local plan is back out again for consultation. The council received 2,000 letters from residents which they clearly didn't bother to read apparently didn't "tell them anything new" while surreptitiously redrawing the green belt boundaries. They're just going through the motions.

Ironically, it's the local Conservative councillors rather than the incumbent Lib Dem's that are most vocal about challenging their own party's housing targets.

Yep, the Lib Dems are pro building. But I don't think it is right to consider the Conservative party 'conservative' any more. Voraciously progressive. It is all about greed. Long after their wards are concreted over, they will have buggered off to Switzerland or Barbados.

It isnt really the point of the thread, but I'm fairly sure it's people living much longer that's causing population to steadily increase rather than people having too many children
The trend for individual houses is a problem too. Single adult children living alone instead of living with parents until marriage. Elderly people living alone instead of living with family. Women who would previously have had to move in with family if they were single, divorced, widowed, are now living alone. Not saying these are bad, just that society has changed and this is creating a housing problem because now we need lots of small houses instead of a smaller number of big houses.

SilverOak - Yes, I think there are two issues here. Are the powers available to local planning authorities adequate and do they make use of the powers they’ve got?

No, powers are not adequate. Councils are forced to consider repeated planning applications for the same site and have no way to completely veto a site for development. And even if they say no repeatedly, they can be overruled by some bozo from the planning inspectorate who lives hundreds of miles away. They create policies only for said bozo to say “your policies are only guidelines and I can still allow a planning application that does not comply”. They are discouraged from adding new areas of green belt. They have no way to force the development of brownfield sites. Huge public opposition is apparently not a good enough reason to refuse planning permission. And once planning permission is granted there is no way to have it overturned.

But also no, councils do not use their existing powers sufficiently. Many have not developed a local plan or set housing targets. Parish councils are also able to develop neighbourhood plans but most don’t because there is no money available for them to actually do it.

Rather than people having their own children, perhaps they shouldn't be allowed to until all children in care have been adopted.

The UK has a declining birth rate, it's actually a big issue. The population is growing because there are more old people.

@dreamingbohemian Many people who are priced out of cities and can't afford anything better go for these houses. Help to buy is also only for new builds I think, so there would be a fair few people buying through that. For some people a house like this is the only chance they have of owning their own home, or it's their first step on the ladder and they don't intend to stay. I think people know these houses aren't ideal but not everyone has the choice of something better.
Home ownership is a big thing in this country because renting is so awful. There's a massive shortage of social housing and it's often in a poor state, on rough estates. Private renting is often more expensive than a mortgage and you have little security, plus it's a lottery if you'll get a good landlord.
Developers are sure they'll make a profit because there's huge demand.

I find this thread a bit NIMBYish and distasteful tbh. So it's Ok for PPs to live where they live, but other people aren't allowed to move there? I get the arguments about poor infrastructure, building on farmland etc but the Uk is a small island and there's a big shortage of housing, people have to live somewhere. In my area at the moment there's a big shortage of both social and private lets.

The declining UK population is probably not helped by the lack of social housing and having to privately rent. Then young couples cannot start families as easily

I do think the immigration situation has pushed prices up and put a strain on affordable housing so it is a difficult one

Also, people in this country don't want to live in flats. Everyone wants an individual house with a garden. That can't happen without building on vast swathes of land. If people were willing to adopt European style apartment living with communal areas between the buildings instead of private gardens. that would help the problem. But any post on here where someone is wondering if they can have a child in a flat it met with horror. I bet lots of the people complaining about houses being built wouldn't consider living in a flat.

Of course young people don't want to have dc, it's far too expensive. Your average 21 yr old will leave uni with a massive debt but have to start saving for a mortgage & a pension whilst paying rent on a salary that is probably not changed for years. Honestly if I was young I'd leave as it's only going to get worse!

I bet lots of the people complaining about houses being built wouldn't consider living in a flat.

Good point