Iceland’s 4 day a week ( work related)

[Hushmental]

Just want to know what everyone’s opinion is on this one. They have proved that working just 4 days a week resulted in increased productivity and happy employees. I would love if that’s implemented but I know it’s far from happening anytime soon. So my poll is Yabu if you don’t support it and yanbu if you think it will work.

I work in a school for a catering company

1. Would this apply to schools???

1. If it does that's 200 meals less/ week for my company

No way are they going to pay me the same when their sales are decreased by 1/5th I'd be forced to get a second job or receive more in universal credit

I'm sure there are potential benefits for all sectors but you haven't answered my fundamental question of how you run services that have to open 7 days a week with 20% fewer people?

It's naive to think that you can magic away the problems with a 'But we'll be more productive' wand. In your nursing example, people might well live longer as a result of more leisure time, but that actually increases the burden on the NHS because they will live with long-term conditions for longer. So more HCPs are needed for a healthy ageing population than one that drops dead of overwork at 60.

I'm supportive of a 4 day week over all, but wishing away the difficulties isn't going to get us there. Even if taxpayers were prepared to fund a 20% increase in public sector workforce costs, that still doesn't solve the question of how you recruit the extra staff. Healthcare and social care are already chronically understaffed and cannot recruit. The HCP workforce is rapidly ageing, particularly district nurses and GPs. We can't replace retirees at the moment. How are we going to magic up 20% more staff?

We are lucky that DH's work is super flexible. He has condensed his 5 day a week hours into 4 days a week, so although he is doing longer hours each day, has an extra day off that he spends with DS whilst I'm at work. One less day of childcare, and quality time he gets to spend with his son rather having to pay someone to do it. He's just as productive as before and his employer seems quite happy with the arrangement too, no complaints. He said it took a couple of weeks to get used to the longer days but just like with anything, once you get into a swing of things, it's fine. He says he'd not go back to 5 days again if there was a way. I'm looking to do this too when I go back FT. Good on Iceland!

I'm sure there are potential benefits for all sectors but you haven't answered my fundamental question of how you run services that have to open 7 days a week with 20% fewer people?

Why would rotas not work? My GP has 7 GPs but only 2 f/t so they do this already to cover each day.

On a 7 day a week service it’s 14.3% more staff not 20% surely?

Yes there would be budgetary implications but we can’t dismiss the fact that the Icelandic study has been successful and is now being widely adopted.

Different industries with different needs would obviously handle this in different ways.

I have worked part time for years and currently do a version of compressed hours. It works for me and I totally agree with the PP comments about being much more productive on part time hours and getting far more done than I did as a ‘full timer’.

The presenteeism reflect is strong in the nations pschye though.

@snotf

I'm sure there are potential benefits for all sectors but you haven't answered my fundamental question of how you run services that have to open 7 days a week with 20% fewer people?

Why would rotas not work? My GP has 7 GPs but only 2 f/t so they do this already to cover each day.

The rotas work, but you need 20% more staff to fill them if they are only working 80% of the hours that they do now. The fact that they may be more productive in the days that they are working is no help, because you still need cover for the 20% of time that they will now be off.

No-one does anything on a Friday anyway

Would you really need 20% more staff! Surely the vast majority of businesses have a combination of p/t & f/t workers & p/t workers wouldn't need to be reducing their hours, just changing the pattern.

sorry my ! should be a ?

My team has 3 p/t & 2 f/t. The 2 f/t could drop a day each without needing to employ extra people for cover.

time.com/5948677/four-day-work-week-spain/

Spain are currently trialling a 4-day week there.

On a 7 day a week service it’s 14.3% more staff not 20% surely?

Why? If staff are working 4 days a week instead of 5, you need 20% more of them.

There's no reason at all why a 4 day week couldn't work for 7 day services, provided we could find the money and staff to cover the gap. But I don't see how we can.

The entire population of Iceland is about the equivalent of Coventry. The challenges of implementing a 4 day week n the U.K. are several orders of magnitude greater. They aren't insurmountable, but we won't magic them away with wishful thinking.

I worked 4 days a week for 10 years in my last job and am full time now in a new job. I feel quite burned out each week now and wonder how long I can keep it up.

Some really interesting discussion here. Like some of you mentioned , some industries like healthcare may have to use a different approach or handle it differently. Government and some greedy corporates are going to find a way to not implement this anyway I think 🤷‍♀️

@snotf

My team has 3 p/t & 2 f/t. The 2 f/t could drop a day each without needing to employ extra people for cover.

So you think that part-timers are going to be happy doing the same hours, for the same money, when their full-time colleagues have just had an effective 20% pay rise and a 20% reduction in hours? Dream on!

You might convince part-timers to continue their current hours, but they are going to expect the same pay uplift as the full-timers so your costs go up 20% across the board.

I bet you'd all despair if the you were on 4 days and schools went to 4 days 🤣

I guess we won't know as it's conjecture but can I not be part of the 4 day week dream too? Or is it too inconvenient for me and schools to be part of it?? I work in the kitchens

So you think that part-timers are going to be happy doing the same hours, for the same money, when their full-time colleagues have just had an effective 20% pay rise and a 20% reduction in hours? Dream on!

I don't see it like that, their pay is remaining the same but they are doing less hours, not necessarily less work. I work 3 days a week & am happy with that. I know there are often quiet periods in the office & my f/t colleagues are getting paid to chat or surf the net, so what.

That's a lot of disparaging references to "magic" and "wishful" on the side of the proposal which you don't like. I note the good ol' "why should taxpayers fund..." being included too. Can you make your argument for maintaining the status quo without the political spin and by engaging with what others have said?

You dislike the idea, fine. This is a chat board, most of us have not seen the detailed research findings, aren't trained in economics or public sector financial management. We are not going to be able to make sense of this 4d(?) Jigsaw or formulate the next stages of the experiment or potential outcomes.

Not being able to visualize or understand doesn't mean it can't happen and be effective. I would be very interested in any data or research on how to begin taking the principles to other sectors.

YANBU

Where I work we finish at 3pm on Fridays in the summer and I can't see that it makes any difference in productivity in my team but it does make us all a bit saner!

Also haven't Portugal had funding from the EU recently to trial this as part of their COVID recovery?

Come off it, @snotf.

Say you're a worker on £20/hour now, regardless of whether you're full-time or part-time.

We bring in a 4 day week but the full-timers' salaries don't change.

Now the part-timer is still earning £20/hour but the full-timer is earning £24/hour.

Do you really think that the part-timer is going to say,'That's fine by me, because my full-time colleague is now more productive' ?

@user615632456321125

That's a lot of disparaging references to "magic" and "wishful" on the side of the proposal which you don't like. I note the good ol' "why should taxpayers fund..." being included too. Can you make your argument for maintaining the status quo without the political spin and by engaging with what others have said?

You dislike the idea, fine. This is a chat board, most of us have not seen the detailed research findings, aren't trained in economics or public sector financial management. We are not going to be able to make sense of this 4d(?) Jigsaw or formulate the next stages of the experiment or potential outcomes.

Not being able to visualize or understand doesn't mean it can't happen and be effective. I would be very interested in any data or research on how to begin taking the principles to other sectors.

Actually I don't dislike the idea at all. I've done a lot of work on tackling presenteeism. I think we would benefit greatly from a 4 day week.

It's precisely because I support the idea that I am so irritated by a refusal to engage with the practical difficulties that would need to be overcome.

Now the part-timer is still earning £20/hour but the full-timer is earning £24/hour.

But who said the f/t wouldn't work longer days?

Do you really think that the part-timer is going to say,'That's fine by me, because my full-time colleague is now more productive' ?

No but this p/t is telling you that I would still stick to my 3 days at my pay rate rather than increase my hours at all. If I was offered a 5 day salary but to do the job in 4 days I would rather keep my 3 days.

Plus none of us earn the same anyway. We are earn different amounts & the f/t workers are more senior with more responsibility & already get paid a higher hourly rate.