To ask if you employ a FT nanny/housekeeper, what is your household income?

[UncleBunclesHouse]

I feel that we need this service but it just seems like something I’ve only thought was for the very wealthy, not ‘normal’ working people. I don’t know if I’m being unrealistic or out of my league to recruit for this position.

Not necessary for the answer but so as not to drip feed, I earn 6 figures and husband income is less clear as self employed. For various reasons we would need the nanny/housekeeper to be self employed also and invoice us their bill. I’d want a really good one who is doing it as a career and can be very proactive in running the home and engaging with the children to further their development, plus flexible as our jobs can sometimes mean unpredictable hours.

In defence of the OP and the attention her salary is attracting, it's quite normal for a house hold with two working professionals to have a combined income of over 150 or 200k.

That's a normal income for that situation. Everyones normal is different.

You are overpaid if you can't figure out a budget, find out how much a nanny costs and work out if you can afford to pay a nanny.

If they're old enough you could put them as day boarders and get a cleaner in a few days a week who is willing to clean and do laundry. No weekly shop necessary as they eat all meals out if the house and you outsource birthday cards etc to Moonpig.

How old are your children? If pre-school then you’re probably looking at a nanny and a cleaner. If school-age then the nanny/housekeeper becomes more realistic.

You also need to think about if you have pre-school children whether you might end up double paying for them to go to nursery as well as having a nanny.

Some of your choices will also depend on child’s interests, likely need for care during school holidays etc.

During a particularly hideous period when I was ill in bed, we had a FT nanny, and separately a cleaner that came in daily and did housekeeping as well. Easier than finding a nanny/housekeeper, and they got on brilliantly and worked as a team.

@SmokeyDevil

You are overpaid if you can't figure out a budget, find out how much a nanny costs and work out if you can afford to pay a nanny.

@SmokeyDevil I wasn’t asking if I could afford it, I was trying to get a feel for the types of salaries people who already have this level of home/childcare help earn. To help gauge if my perception around wealth level and employing staff is completely false or not I suppose, as it’s something we are thinking of looking into and it feels out of my league. I’m perfectly capable of doing the sums and if that’s your only contribution I think you may have too much time on your hands.

Well 6 figures could be £100,000 and that is right to pay a nanny full time out of your net income when in london that be about £45k all in ( including pension).
We earn 7 figures between us and our nanny does a lot of other us be a for us ( admin, cooking etc) but not cleaning. In fact our cleaner and our nanny are great friends and go on holiday together to Mauritius. Hmmm maybe we are overpaying

@farfallarocks

Well 6 figures could be £100,000 and that is right to pay a nanny full time out of your net income when in london that be about £45k all in ( including pension). We earn 7 figures between us and our nanny does a lot of other us be a for us ( admin, cooking etc) but not cleaning. In fact our cleaner and our nanny are great friends and go on holiday together to Mauritius. Hmmm maybe we are overpaying

Sure.

We have a nanny 3 days a week, she costs somewhere around £1,800 a month in total. Combined salary of around £150k. It’s a lot of money to us on top of largish mortgage but we won’t do it forever, just while my youngest is still tiny. Nursery would cost somewhere around £1k a month anyway, so I’ve resigned myself to paying an extra £10k a year to make life immeasurably easier. She only does the children, I don’t expect anything else.

@farfallarocks

Well 6 figures could be £100,000 and that is right to pay a nanny full time out of your net income when in london that be about £45k all in ( including pension). We earn 7 figures between us and our nanny does a lot of other us be a for us ( admin, cooking etc) but not cleaning. In fact our cleaner and our nanny are great friends and go on holiday together to Mauritius. Hmmm maybe we are overpaying

😂 brilliant!

I’m perfectly capable of doing the sums and if that’s your only contribution I think you may have too much time on your hands.

So do you as you had to make a thread about it rather than just googling for how much a nanny costs.

Who cares what other people earn? Your outgoings won't be the same, so it hardly matters if they earn the same or more or less. This thread is just a humble brag, like the ones of people asking if they can afford private school on x wage.

Just get yourself on childcare.co.uk to see what a nannies in your area want and do your sums.
We're not very wealthy as mentioned above but we have a nanny starting next month. Not because we find life too difficult to juggle otherwise but simply because our youngest has some needs making nursery not a realistic option. The nanny will cost us less than i earn so overall it's worth it to us. But every one is different

@SmokeyDevil FFS I wasn’t asking how much a nanny cost! And I made a thread about what I actually asked because it’s not really something I can ask about in RL. And what would be the ‘brag’ benefit in an anonymous forum where no one knows who I am and vice versa? Such odd issues you have with my post 🤷‍♀️

I did have a housekeeper/cleaner/nanny when dc were at junior school, she worked 2pm-6pm and even cooked dinner, 3 days a week, was great. But her job was principally the house but she collected dc (5 mins away) and ensured that they didn't kill each other. They were the age that when I was a kid you would have had a key around your neck and let yourself in unsupervised

I have never had a nanny but many of my friends have. In each case their combined incomes were well over £250k. They also had a cleaner at least 3 times a week.

Some nannies did the shopping as well. Never cleaning. All couples had senior roles London based. My goddaughter is a Norland Nanny. She earns a lot but she works for demanding wealthy families where taking a helicopter can be standard. She always flies club class on family holidays etc.

I would say you need two roles being fulfilled here.

What are you actually asking though?

If you can afford it, do it. If you can’t, don’t.

What difference does it make to your decision how much people who do have nannies generally earn? Why do you need to know that?

Also, having had a nanny and a cleaner when my children were younger, you need to adjust your attitude. These (probably) women you’re talking about are going to be entrusted with your children and your home. A proper nanny will likely spend much of their waking life with the nanny. You don’t extract “value” from such an employee. You give and you take because it’s best for your children, the nanny and - lastly - you. A cleaner less so, perhaps, depending on what you ask for.

And yes, you will have to manage both people. If you want someone to lift the mental load, ask your DH. Even a PA would need management.

OP not sure why you’re getting such a hard time on here. This website is for parents to ask any parenting related questions. Yes I find so much animosity and meanness and wonder why anyone would want to be unpleasant to someone asking for advice. Anyway, returning to trying to be helpful. We have had nannies for the last 10 years. We have never found a nanny who was even a passable housekeeper. So we now only recruit nannies who want to concentrate on the DC and we do the cleaning ourselves. Having a nanny is a luxury and costs in the region of £30,000 with employers NI, holiday pay and pension. Extras are mileage, gifts, outings with DC, food for nanny’s snacks and lunch. We are SE not London. For the first 8 years we had nannies this was a huge financial strain but nursery and wrap around care didn’t work for us due to travel. Now people are working from home more we could cut the nanny’s hours a lot but we like her and she is fabulous with the DC so we don’t. If you’re lucky enough to find a decent nanny cling to them. It makes life much easier.

My kids are too old to need a nanny (13/14) but we have just hired a housekeeper to do all the cleaning/washing/ironing/shopping/cooking etc. we’re paying £15 p/h for 16 hours per week, term time only. Equates to around £11k per year.
Household income is around the £250k mark before tax. If employing someone to work in your house they must be employed - they’re entitled to holiday pay, sick pay, pension, etc.

@MrsTWH

That’s not strictly true. Many people have part time cleaners, part time housekeepers, temporary nannies etc which can all be self employed.

The threshold for employment can self employment for household staff is usually advised as when they work for 3 or more families and have some flexibility over their hours

So if your housekeeper is doing similar hours for other families, and has a start time five or take an hour, she would be able to be self employed and for you to pay her gross

The difficulties arise with employed nannies working for multiple families when the nanny still expects a certain net salary - which is the usual way to negotiate their pay

Family 1 pays her £12/hour net, which works out at £17/hr gross, once they pay her tax and NI using the benefit of her personal allowance

But if family 2 also have to pay her £12/hr net, they are then paying closer to £20/hr gross because they don’t get any of it tax-free

So it is rarely worth families employing nannies as a second job, and when they get to family 3, it means she can be self employed, so all families pay £17/hr and she sorts out her own tax and NI

We are by no means wealthy but do have a nanny and a housekeeper. It works for us because we have very small kids and both have jobs that are very demanding with long hours and unpredictable frequent travel etc. In my experience it’s best to keep their roles separate and be very clear about what they’re meant to do. With time each might be happy to help out beyond their normal responsibilities (e.g the nanny will sometimes help with dishes that are not only the kids) but it is not something we expect her to do. You also need to accept that the more qualified and experienced you want them to be, the more you’ll need to pay (almost the whole of one salary goes to the nanny and housekeeper). And you will need to pay NI etc. because they will be your employee.

[quote UncleBunclesHouse]@SmokeyDevil FFS I wasn’t asking how much a nanny cost! And I made a thread about what I actually asked because it’s not really something I can ask about in RL. And what would be the ‘brag’ benefit in an anonymous forum where no one knows who I am and vice versa? Such odd issues you have with my post 🤷‍♀️[/quote]
But what you earn and what other people doesn't matter, how can you not see that? Your outgoings might be less than someone earning more than you, so they can't afford one, but you can. Or your outgoings are more than someone earning less than you, but they can afford one and you can't. So why does it matter what others earn? Do you think you have to be a certain type of earner before you are allowed a nanny? What's your thinking behind it, because it literally means nothing. What matters is your income and your outgoings, that's it. And we can't help you on that.

We could all pile on here saying 'I earn 350k a year and have a nanny, you can't possibly have one for less', or 'I earn 50k and manage to pay for one by living off rice, why can't you afford one'. It still makes no difference to you, because their circumstances are different to yours.

I am still surprised someone in your level of job can't see this.

'The threshold for employment can self employment for household staff is usually advised as when they work for 3 or more families and have some flexibility over their hours'

That's not correct at all.
The line between workers and self employed isn't at all about working part time or full time. It's a about providing personal services or being able to send in a substitute and alternatively providing that service as part of a commercial relationship (like a freelance consultant for instance). I would consider it risky to treat any nanny as self employed.

@oblada

The guidance from the many nanny payroll companies is quite clear on this
If a nanny is working for 1 or 2 families on a long term basis, they cannot be legitimately self employed
If a nanny works for 3 or more families and has some flexibility over hours, they can potentially be self employed
Night nannies are only ever self employed, as are temporary nannies - all completely within the rules and guidance

If you think that’s wrong, take it up with them and HMRC.

If everyone providing domestic services had to be employed, no one would have cleaners

www.nannypaye.co.uk/can-a-nanny-be-self-employed

“ Exceptions: When might a nanny be self-employed?
As nannies generally fall into the first list, they cannot be considered self-employed. However in some cases HMRC do grant nannies self-employed status, for example, if the nanny works in a series of temporary positions, or works for three or more families at the same time…”

www.nannytax.co.uk/news/top-5-faqs-about-self-employed-nannies

“ In What Circumstances Can A Nanny Be Self-Employed?

It’s often assumed that if a nanny is working for more than one family, then the nanny can be self-employed however this is not the case. In some circumstances HMRC do grant nannies self-employed status, if for example, the nanny works in a series of temporary positions on short-term contracts. It may also be that the nanny works for three or more families at the same time”

Regardless. The type of position the OP appears to be posting about wouldn’t meet the potential requirements for self-employment. Too many hours as when would a potential nanny/housekeeper have time to work for other people.