My heart is bleeding for my country tonight

[TrixieLou]

Name changed and posting here for traffic.

I have been resident in the UK for 15 years but I am originally from Kwazulu Natal, South Africa. My country is on fire. It has been mentioned on the news today but the football has completely overshadowed the story. My family live in the worst hit area. Shopping centres have been looted and destroyed. Thousands of criminals have been shooting, looting, throwing grenades and setting off bombs. I had my father on the phone earlier and could hear gunshots in the background. The police and the military are doing nothing. My brothers are currently blocking off their roads with their vans. They are armed with guns. Most of their neighbours are there too. They are watching thousands of angry protesters approach from the valley below. Gunshots. Fire. Bombs. There is black smoke billowing in the air from trucks and cars being set on fire. Thousands of people are walking on the streets carrying merchandise from destroyed shopping centres. People are shooting at each other. They have said that this is only the beginning. Private homes will be next. The homes that house my family and friends. My family are scared for their lives tonight. I just had my father in tears on the phone, telling me he doesn’t know what is going to happen tonight and that he loves me. He never got to meet my new baby.

Please pray for South Africa tonight. Or send good thoughts if you don’t pray. They will never recover from this. They were already on their knees.

@mumsnet no idea how you are choosing to delete some posts and not others. Please clarify

@Allington I think you have to tag @MNHQ

'They' are doing this

'They' had their possessions stolen from them - by force - for centuries.

That doesn't make it right. But perhaps it puts it in context?

Thanks @TrixieLou

@MNHQ please explain which posting rules I have broken? Feel free to give examples.

This is so awful. My DH is South African and his family are all there bar his brother.

I hope your loved ones are safe OP and anyone else affected on here

One example I gave (deleted post) was DD1 visiting a school friend for the weekend. Trouble on the street, and the police used bullets and tear gas. Luckily the school friend's family were in an RDP house (breeze blocks) not a shack, so the bullets were not a threat. But despite putting towels up to block the cracks, the tear gas got in and triggered DD's asthma. Of course, no chance of getting medical help.

Does that break Talk guidelines?

My point - violence is a daily problem for the majority of South Africans. My heart breaks for it daily

Narrowing it down, perhaps the issue is my reference to DD's friend, aged 8, being dragged into the bushes by an adult male and forcibly and fully sexually assaulted. Maybe the 'r' word is the issue. But it happened. And didn't make any news because so commonplace.

KZN born and bred. Watching videos coming in from loved ones of the violence and destruction is so worrying. The army are deployed but only to the areas most impacted. Whole suburbs are fending for themselves and security companies are focusing on shops and not the houses they are paid to protect as they don't have the man power to cover it all. I am hoping my loved ones stay safe.

TrixieLou and all, I'm with you. I'm sitting here in my safe lovely house in the UK, heartbroken. My mum is elderly and alone, my nephews are in the street, trying to help the police. So much hurt and history attached to all this, but it doesn't take away the fact that millions are absolutely terrified, caught up in all of this without wanting to be. Beautiful SA is on fire, and the fuel for this fire has been soaked into the bones for many years. I'm praying with you all.

Having explained the context of the word 'col**Red relating to communities in SA

Hello again,

As a UK site our guidelines are based on what is generally considered offensive here. We politely ask that you don't use the term again on Mumsnet.

Best wishes,
MNHQ

So, communities in another part of the world refer to themselves as XYZ. I am not allowed to use their own word for their community?

Allington, I have a very small degree of understanding of the issues of which you speak, with such understandable passion and anger, as I studied South African history at university. I have a similar small degree of understanding of the impacts on the psyche of those that have suffered so much in South Africa, for many generations.

I'm being clumsy, but I didn't want you to feel unheard, because what you have to say is very important, and it's truth.

I wish so much that everyone in South Africa were safe, felt safe, and felt they were empowered and valued in society. Poor South Africa. She and far too many of her people, have suffered too much, and for far too long.

For those familiar with SA, my posts are being deleted because I refer to a community using a word (starting with 'c') that was classified as between Black and white under apartheid.

I have made it clear that this is an apartheid classification, but one adopted by some of those communities, and a term used in equal opps monitoring in SA.

I have offered to put mumsnet in touch with friends from that community who will confirm that it is their choice of identity

@Allington - you have hijacked the thread and made it about you and your views.

Regardless of race, there are a lot of scared and anxious people in SA worried about their personal safety and the direction the country is going.

Please have some empathy for the OP and remember etiquette goes a long way.

You are most welcome to start your own thread; pls don't hijack someone else's.

[quote SoHereWeAre01]@Allington - you have hijacked the thread and made it about you and your views.

Regardless of race, there are a lot of scared and anxious people in SA worried about their personal safety and the direction the country is going.

Please have some empathy for the OP and remember etiquette goes a long way.

You are most welcome to start your own thread; pls don't hijack someone else's.
[/quote]
@SoHereWeAre01 yes, this. Thank you.

@SoHereWeAre01 thank you very much for saying that. @Allington MNHQ are very responsive to emails and I’m sure they’d be happy to have it out with you in private. That term might be acceptable in SA but here in the UK it is considered derogatory and you need to respect that. I’d really like for this thread to be a form of support for those that have family back home that are in danger. We need a safe space to talk and help each other through it.

My point is that 'regardless of race', the people in most fear are the poor. And poverty is inextricable with race due to apartheid, and before that colonialism.

The Dutch settlers rewarded genocide against the indigenous population. The British, when they needed cheap labour in the gold and diamond mines, introduced cash taxes so families living on subsistence farming had to send young men away to earn cash. Which created the migrant family 'norm'

And today township schools typically have 40-60 pupils per class, compared to 30 per class in White suburbs.

I am shocked that you don't find this something to be angry about...

It is not a euphemism for 'black' in SA, which it would be in the UK. I would never support the use in the UK.

But I do support disadvantaged communities (in SA in this case) to choose their own terms.

@Allington Ok! We hear you! We don’t disagree with you! But now is not the time. Right now the people in the most fear are all of those that are affected. My SIL called me in tears at 3am because she found my nephews sleeping under their beds. She woke them up and they were drenched in sweat, absolutely terrified. They told her they were hiding from the gun shots. Please don’t tell us who is the most frightened right now. Parents are frightened! Business owners who have had their livelihoods are frightened! Children are extremely frightened! Please have a bit of consideration for those on this thread who have family in KZN.

As I have said, using the 'c' word in the UK to refer to people who are not White is derogatory. As the mother of black daughters I oppose it.

In SA it was an apartheid term that has been adopted by some communities to describe their culture.

I support their choice 100% and will use their term of choice. Members of that community include DD2's godparents and friends from church, who have provided us with amazing support and cross cultural experiences.

I am more than happy to put @mnhq in touch with them to confirm the differences between UK and SA uses of that term

Yes, it is appallingly that children live in fear. It breaks my heart daily. Because it happens daily.

@Allington your experiences are profound and significant. No one here doubts that or the point you are trying to make.

However this thread is not about this. It is about the OP (and others) needing emotional support and care whilst she waits for her family to be safe. Please can the focus be on this.