To think a saved penalty shouldn't be called a miss?

[Turdibacious]

I know the result is the same but I feel bad for Saka with everyone saying he missed a penalty when it was saved by the keeper. If I remember correctly the same thing happened with Southgate in '96, he got pilloried for miss but it was a save by the keeper.

This is a missed penalty.

@InspiralCoalescenceRingdown

I don't think trying to distinguish between missing the goal entirely and the keeper saving the penalty is that useful. It's entirely possible to take a crap penalty that would go into the goal, but is an easy save for the goalkeeper.

A keeper can still not save a crap shot. They are sometimes harder to read than what looks like a more difficult shot. Same as if an outfield player misses a 'sitter'. What looks easy from the stands/ on TV can be very different to what is happening.

Jordan Pickford really needs to get a lot more credit for England getting so far. He was astonishing yesterday.

I see what you mean, and as the mother of a GK (different sport but same basic principles) I sometimes think it denigrates the skill of the GK to call an unsuccessful penalty a "miss" when it might actually have been a stupendous save.
From what my DS says, in a one on one situation, be that a penalty or something else, the assumption is that the attacker has the advantage and should always score. Therefore if they don't, they have fallen below the expected standard, hence they've "missed". But I think that's unfair, as often it's because the keeper has by far exceeded what might be expected. So to say the attacker missed is unfair to both players.
But in the end all that matters is whether the ball crossed the goal line or not, the rest is semantics. But yes, a better word would be nice.
I had a really interesting chat with DS about penalty shoot outs from the GK perspective last night actually. He said some things I'd not really thought about before despite having watched plenty. Like the physical isolation of the GK whilst the rest of the team are lined up together, the sense of scrutiny of your technique from the other GK and the empathy you feel for the other GK as he or she is the only one who really understands what you're going through.
I really felt for Jordan Pickford last night and I think the discussions over England's unsuccessful penalties has really overshadowed what was a great performance from him.

Yeah I agree, from the keepers pov that 'save' Vs 'miss' could be important!
Both those keepers made some cracking saves last night and 'miss' could mean that the ball was launched over the bar, down the side, straight into their arms for an easy save or they performed a goal keeping miracle.
Though I suppose those who matter know what happened and tbh I think (with my limited footbally brain) that penalty shootouts are mostly luck anyway, and put a massive amount of pressure on the keepers and those shooting, making one or two people 'responsible' for the way a whole game goes. Though I might feel differently if we'd won last night!

Either way, they all did so well and I am a little bit in love with Jordan Pickford now 🤷🏼‍♀️

I actually think people are being a bit harsh on Rashford's penalty. Obviously it can't be a good penalty if it doesn't go in but it was only an inch or so off target. Plenty of other players have missed by a heck of a lot more.

@Ratalie

I actually think people are being a bit harsh on Rashford's penalty. Obviously it can't be a good penalty if it doesn't go in but it was only an inch or so off target. Plenty of other players have missed by a heck of a lot more.

The point is that it would have been much more likely to go in if it hadn’t been for the ridiculous theatrics. There was just no need!

To be honest I'm not that into football, or sport generally so don't know much about the finer technicalities. Just seems unfair that a saved penalty gets classed the same as a miss of Beckhamsized proportions. Also as PP said, the goalie should get the credit (unless the striker kicks it straight at his chest, then I'd agree it's essentially a miss).

I just feel so sorry for that Young lad, especially in the face of the abuse he's getting.

penalty shootouts are mostly luck
I said this to DS last night and got a bit of an earful! Obviously there is luck but it's something that keepers work on a lot and they do a lot of study of opponents. Maddie Hinch, the GB women's hockey GK is reknowned for her encyclopedic knowledge of her opponents' strengths, weaknesses and technical preferences which is a big component in her success.
A lot of it is psychological. I'd always assumed that the GK decided which way to dive and its luck if they get it right but DS says not. As well as prior knowledge of each other, the keeper and striker will be looking for signs of what the other is going to do, and trying to trick each other of course.
I prefer the hockey way of doing a penalty shoot out to football though - I think it tests the skills of both players better and makes the chances more equal though it's really hard work for the GK.

They should be getting it on target. That’s the main aim of a penalty.

Saka and Sanchos penalties were not actually bad, just the goalkeeper is a 8ft tall and he went the right way!

Saka's was an atrocious penalty. You literally can't put the ball in an easier spot for the keeper to make the save.

It is a miss. Its a missed goal. And it really wouldn't be helpful to have all sorts of categories when trying to keep track of what's needed by each team.

The point is that it would have been much more likely to go in if it hadn’t been for the ridiculous theatrics. There was just no need!
It's not theatrics though; a stuttering runup is a commonly used tactic designed to make the keeper dive early.

I assume you don't generally watch football?

@Ratalie

The point is that it would have been much more likely to go in if it hadn’t been for the ridiculous theatrics. There was just no need! It's not theatrics though; a stuttering runup is a commonly used tactic designed to make the keeper dive early.

I assume you don't generally watch football?

You assume incorrectly as pre-Covid we have held season tickets for years. Football mad household in fact!

Sorry to disappoint

Then why talk such shite? "ridiculous theatrics"? Various players have been using stuttering run ups since at least the mid 90s. Rashford does them regularly, and usually scores.

And countless players who have taken 'normal' run ups have missed before.

[quote FlaminEckVera]@Turdibacious

I don't think the winner of the FINAL of a major football tournament should be decided on a bastard penalty shootout. Period.

If it's a draw after full time, and extra time, they should have a rematch.

JMHO.[/quote]
🤣 a rematch? Don't talk shite. Imagine the costs for a start! Golden goal would be better

As for Rashford, he'd barely been on the pitch 5 minutes, touched the ball once or twice in a position he doesn't play in before then having the pressure of a penalty in a Euro final. God knows what Southgate was thinking!

I agree with you OP.

a rematch? Don't talk shite.
It used to be the rule in the FA Cup final. It's more logistically difficult for an International tournament but not a ridiculous idea.

@Ratalie

a rematch? Don't talk shite. It used to be the rule in the FA Cup final. It's more logistically difficult for an International tournament but not a ridiculous idea.

I know it used to be a rule for FA cup but it IS a ridiculous idea for anything beyond that. Plus I don't think my blood pressure could have stood a replay

I quite liked the old MLS style shootouts (players starting 35 yards out and having 5 seconds to score).

It unreal that world cup games used to be decided on coin tosses though.

@Ratalie

I quite liked the old MLS style shootouts (players starting 35 yards out and having 5 seconds to score).

It unreal that world cup games used to be decided on coin tosses though.

That's how it works in hockey, except it's 8 seconds from the 23m line. It's a lot more interesting.

Why the semantics? You score or you don't when you take a penalty

It's not semantics to recognise the contribution of a goalkeeper though is it. You could kick a ball at an unattended goal and miss scoring if your kick's not on target.