School and autistic child.

[KarenM262]

Hi I am new to posting so please forgive me if this is the wrong place. I am also new to autism so I don't mean to use the wrong phrases or offend anyone. So as a bit of background I have a 6 year old son who has been referred for speech and language help since nursery, every time they have got to the assessment as the wait is so long the issues had sorted themselves and he has now pretty much caught up with speech and language. However after the last assessment I raised some concerns about his social interaction and a few other issues which school have also raised and he is now being referred to a pediatrician and education psycholigist. We have been reffered since starting reception and it's all taken a long time but even at the first parents evening in reception the teacher said she thought he was autistic. Now I have researched it and spoken to the speech and language team I have a strong suspicion that he is however I think it can take a long time for a disgnosis. So anyway he is now in year 1 going in to year 2 in September (with the same teacher). This week we were sent a school report home and I cried reading it, it was full of negative remarks "he needs to concentrate more" "he needs to try harder" "he needs to stop being so easily distracted" this was from the same teacher who decided as he wasn't listening he had to sit on a table by himself which really upset him. AIBU? I don't understand how they can be aware there is possible autism and yet treat him as if it's his fault, if he can't concentrate I think it's the environment. They have two teaching assistants and an SEN teacher surely he should be getting some support or does it just come if they are diagnosed? The teacher I feel is really not interested either she said a few weeks ago "someone is coming in tomorrow to see him is that ok?" And when I asked who she didn't know or care, she just said she's called Nicola that's all I know. I don't know if I am too emotionally involved and taking it all too personally or not so would appreciate any feedback X

Until you get an EHCP the school can just muddle along really, the EHCP is something to hold them account against (and it's no silver bullet, judging by the tales of them not being adhered to).
I hear parents say 'school said we won't get an EHCP' so often I think its written on a loser somewhere - there are many parents who have been successful in applying for one themselves. The truth of the matter is that education is underfunded and HT's protect their budgets tightly which means alot of parental fobbing off, and sometimes down right mis information. Facebook has some very good groups on autism and EHCP processes and also take a look at Sunshine Support on there - will tell you what your child is entitled too, and how to fight to get it.

Written on a poster, not a loser! 😂

I should say as well I have looked at getting him diagnosed privately but not sure if it will help, Nicola from speech and language said school have to provide 11 hours themselves of support, what annoys me is they have enough teachers with the SEN teacher plus two teaching assistants but are using the SEN as a substitute for the reception class, they did that last year too. I had a meeting with the SEN but I haven't heard anything since, they will maybe blame covid but me and OH are key workers and my son has been at school at least part time when I was working throughout, in fact in the last lockdown it was the SEN teacher teaching them and she commented how well he did at lockdown school I think as it was quieter and they basically seemed to bake every day which he loves doing. She did say that going forward he was suited to much smaller groups, sadly it hasn't happened.

They have treated your boy appallingly. I would write a complaint based on your update.

Please escalate this as much as possible and look at moving him asap.

He will be ok though and he is lucky to have you. There will be other kids at that school who have similar issues but maybe not with parents willing or able to advocate.

Hi. My son sounds similar with the engineer brain, my son could rewire the school in-fact he changes batteries etc for the teachers. He’s always wanting to help and watches videos on you tube of fire alarms and how they work etc. However we have a family full of engineers and electricians etc but also my son is behind with reading and writing he’s 5. He’s dad and paternal grandad are dyslexic and I’m thinking maybe this is my son, being of mechanical mind is a trait as well as lack of concentration etc have thought about dyslexia?

To be honest it could be anything and I don't think I'll know until he is diagnosed. My grandfather's were both engineers and I think it does come from that. The autism traits are things like sensory, he has the most sensitive sense of smell, he will be sick so easily if he sees anything discusting, he can't wear certain things. He doesn't like change although this has improved a lot, he likes routine and knowing what will happen although as long as I explain he can cope with changes, he is very literal I cant use phrases like "it's not the end of the world" he then wants to know all about the end of the world and when it is. He doesn't really understand jokes or social interaction, I've tried to teach him but it doesn't come naturally and he will find it hard to play a game with his brother for example, his brother loves playing dinosaurs or paw patrol he has never done imaginary games.

It does sound as if the diagnostic pathway is underway, and I would not be too concerned about things like the teacher not knowing who is coming in to see him.

I teach and regularly get messages from the office that someone has left a message on the answering machine that they're 'coming in to see X' but didn't say where they were coming from! If they leave a number, we ring back of course but then they don't return our calls. Services are stretched very thinly at the moment. The important thing is that you received some feedback after they came in?

I will also defend their use of a single-seat desk for your son. Children have had to sit in rows this year, on desks for two. If your son sprawls, stims or cannot focus with another child next to him, it may have been the best way to support his regulation and the other children's learning.

But there are red flags in your post that I can't defend and I too would be looking for another school. The negativity in the report is unconscionable. A TA isn't always necessary to effectively support a SEN child, but if he is struggling as much as the report suggests, then why doesn't he have access to a TA? Covid and self-isolation policies may have stretched staff thin this year but what is the plan going forward?

Certainly, it does sound as if he needs support to develop and maintain relationships with his peers. Whilst school can't manufacture true friendship, there are effective interventions to promote social interaction and sitting him separate to his friends at lunch-time is the opposite of that.
If he eats very slowly could he sit with his friends until they finish, and then move to the table for slow eaters? Or do covid hygiene policies prevent this movement?

The thing is that there could be good justifications for all of their decisions but they should be communicating with you, not ignoring your emails and exacerbating your worries.

I would make an appointment with the SENCO and go with a list of questions.

@fourminutestosavetheworld

It does sound as if the diagnostic pathway is underway, and I would not be too concerned about things like the teacher not knowing who is coming in to see him.

I teach and regularly get messages from the office that someone has left a message on the answering machine that they're 'coming in to see X' but didn't say where they were coming from! If they leave a number, we ring back of course but then they don't return our calls. Services are stretched very thinly at the moment. The important thing is that you received some feedback after they came in?

I will also defend their use of a single-seat desk for your son. Children have had to sit in rows this year, on desks for two. If your son sprawls, stims or cannot focus with another child next to him, it may have been the best way to support his regulation and the other children's learning.

But there are red flags in your post that I can't defend and I too would be looking for another school. The negativity in the report is unconscionable. A TA isn't always necessary to effectively support a SEN child, but if he is struggling as much as the report suggests, then why doesn't he have access to a TA? Covid and self-isolation policies may have stretched staff thin this year but what is the plan going forward?

Certainly, it does sound as if he needs support to develop and maintain relationships with his peers. Whilst school can't manufacture true friendship, there are effective interventions to promote social interaction and sitting him separate to his friends at lunch-time is the opposite of that.
If he eats very slowly could he sit with his friends until they finish, and then move to the table for slow eaters? Or do covid hygiene policies prevent this movement?

The thing is that there could be good justifications for all of their decisions but they should be communicating with you, not ignoring your emails and exacerbating your worries.

I would make an appointment with the SENCO and go with a list of questions.

Thank you, it is useful to see it from another perspective and I sound very ungrateful to the teacher which I'm not, I do know you all work so hard and I'll be honest even doing it part time I could not be a teacher he was very hard to teach in lockdown. I think the thing about making him sit on his own was he wasn't given any warning, it wasn't explained to him it was done mid way through a lesson and felt like a punishment to him. The table wasn't the right colour to him and he just felt very upset by it.

In the end Nicola couldn't go because she has to isolate but she did say she will arrange a meeting for September with us all, she was very supportive and agreed he needed some help in place and strategies for helping him.
They are now letting him sit with his classmates and actually it's improved things as he has started to mention playing with a boy, this boy is a lovely child and I think he would make a good friend for him so that's a positive.

There are charities that will do an assessment quicker than NHS.
Starjumpz - about £3000
Or Bibic - cheaper

Once you get the diagnosis on the NHS you get minimal support anyway so you may as well go through one of the charities so you know what you are dealing with.

I believe NHS will accept the Starjumpz diagnosis so you can be put forward to the early birds course (12 week parenting support course)

I'm not sure about Bibic but worth investigating as much cheaper and shorter waiting list.

I know a few people have mentioned a private diagnosis which I am willing to do however I am worried as I read that schools won't always accept a private diagnosis so not sure if it's helpful. I appreciate it would be helpful for me so I can research what I am dealing with. I have ordered some books to try and find out more about autism but I could be going in the wrong direction.

@KarenM262 I think it would be worthwhile having a private Ed psych assessment- they will take a comprehensive look at your child’s strengths and weaknesses to determine what your child needs. They aren’t able to diagnose ASD/ADHD/dyspraxia etc but will be able to give you an idea of where your child’s difficulties may sit. You can then use this report to apply for an EHCP (if indeed difficulties are found) - the school may say that the LA won’t accept private reports but they do when pushed.

If your private psychiatrist assessment for ASD meets NICE guidelines for assessment the LA (ignore school, they don't issue EHCP) should recognise it. It also helps if the psychiatrist works, or has worked in the NHS too - e g Elizabeth Newson clinic - not as relevant to you as ASD/PDA specialist but an example where a LA can't reject a diagnosis. Another point to bear in mind is LA's don't always act lawfully or within Education Act legislation, never accept any decision from them you haven't fact checked with an independent body e g your local Sendiass or a national charity like Sunshine Support.

Quick overview of roles - others please feel free to add or amend:

School: Cater to mass education, some SEN support and basic intervention for SEN in school-, variable quality depending on school. Implement what is written in an EHCP e.g 1:1 support. A school may say they can't implement
an EHCP or meet child's needs in which case the child must move school. Very limited budget, and cost of Sen or alternative provision comes out of their budgets, hence pushback on parents and no action in many cases.
Local Authority: Issue EHCP's, responsible for providing a full time education etc
Education Psychologist - employed by school to assist with children's needs in school once it's established that schools basic interventions aren't working. The school pay for this from their own budgets and they're expensive (e.g c£500 referral) and of variable quality. You will get little say in their brief/remit with your child as the school are paying, although they will talk to you as part of evidence gathering. Private Education Psychologist: employed by you to assess your childs needs, therefore the brief is yours, as you are paying.
Sendiass, independent local advice on SEN. Worth a call.
Hope that helps with who is responsible for doing what...

Just to add, a lot of the things you say about him point to dyslexia, they can go hand in hand with ASD and ADHD.

Lack of focus and attention are dyslexic traits. So is an engineer mind - plus bigger picture thinking.

Watch out for his self esteem.

www.dyslexia.com/about-dyslexia/signs-of-dyslexia/test-for-dyslexia-37-signs/

I would make an appointment to see the headteacher as ultimately this is their responsibility. Unfortunately, it is a common fallacy that a small school is better for SEN. Often it's a large school, with more staff and more spaces, and more likely a class-based SENCo, that can offer more options.

In your position, I would be making a decision:

1. Stay put at this school and apply for the EHCP Needs Assessment yourself. You don't need a diagnosis for this and the threshold for assessment is actually quite low. There is plenty of advice available to support this. You will have evidence from the SALT report once the assessment is done and a school report stating the issues (the teacher has done you and DS a favour here so don't be cross with him/her).

Even if you don't get it, (a) the LA should as part of its reasoning as to how it came to that decision outline what the school should be putting in place and (b) you can appeal the decision.

1. Change schools to one with stronger SEN provision then re-evaluate whether or not you or school will or will not apply for the EHCP Needs Assessment.

… a non-class-based SENCo …

Thank you, that's made it very clear to me, I think you're right and ultimately although I am upset by the report it is good evidence that he needs support, it states he needs things explains in different ways to understand them and things like that so I do think it's good evidence. I've held off replying to the report as I didn't want to send a long emotional reply which just gets the teachers backs up especially if they have been putting things in place and maybe just not told me.