AIBU - Positive Birth Company deleted my comment on instagram

[Basil2021]

Firstly I know there was some discussion recently about some posts the Positive Birth Company put on their Instagram about trans rights - this AIBU is nothing to do with that.

I used the PBC digital pack and thought it was great…until I gave birth. I wouldn’t say it was a total waste of time but it definitely set me up with massively unrealistic expectations, which I think contributed to (but did not solely cause) my PTSD and PND afterwards.

Anyway…on their Instagram feed a few days ago there was a post about how hypnobirthing enables you to ‘create’ an ‘empowering birth experience’. There were loads of comments underneath saying how helpful they found hypnobirthing etc. Fine. I just felt this post was a bit misleading, so I wrote a comment saying that I thought it was important for people to realise that it is impossible to ‘create’
a particular birth and that some births just were difficult. I wasn’t rude or anything like that, but I think it’s an important point to make.

Anyway lo and behold…my comment has been deleted. No engagement with it or anything like that.
I feel really cross! I wish I had never given them my money. Am I being a bit precious?

Argh, it's tricky - an explicit tenet of hypnobirthing is that you should only hear positive stories because going in frightened makes birth harder. Which I do actually think is true, but like you I also think it sets women up for disappointment and to feel like failures. I'm never sure if I'm glad I did a hypnobirthing course or not (it was free, and in fact the only form of antenatal course offered in the hospital I gave birth in). Like you I quickly found that the techniques were hopeless in the face of the pain of labour (I have used them for other, much more minor pain which is where they actually feel appropriate), but then I wonder if it was still better to spend the final weeks of my first pregnancy feeling positive rather than terrified - I'm not sure how much good knowing in advance would have done. Though I think I was lucky that my feeling was 'what a load of bollocks that turned out to be' not that I'd failed, so I don't think it caused me any actual harm.

@Hankunamatata

But CD cost me £10. I'm sure these people charge way more

That's the thing. It's all about the money at this point. The Positive Birth Movement is much better but, unfortunately I believe the PBC swept in with more glossier marketing and captured a wider audience.

I used their course during my second pregnancy, so did already know what labour was about (first birth was vaginal and straightforward though I had an episiotomy). I would say I already knew quite a bit of the information, but it was good to have something to focus on so I felt like I was "preparing" for the birth.

I don't think it gave me unreasonable expectations about the birth, and it's definitely true that often people aren't aware that they can say to the midwives/doctors for example "can we wait for an hour before doing what you suggest", or that they can even say no! Though it's also really hard to say no to the white coat, especially when you're in the middle of labouring!

They stress that you can use the programme no matter what kind of birth you have and I've seen lots of people commenting that even though they had interventions or a c-section, they still found the breathing techniques useful and feeling like they were more involved in the process by asking detailed questions, asking to delay, saying no, etc.

I didn't have a water birth (I gave birth about an hour after getting to the hospital both times) but don't think my birth was "wrong" or substandard in any way because I didn't! I have two friends who had c-sections (one twice and the other 3 times) and I don't think they failed either!

So I don't think the idea of a "perfect birth" comes directly from the course. I think they advocate being informed.

This sort of thing is total snake oil. Creates ludicrously unrealistic expectations about a situation which no-one can control and sets up an awful dynamic where women blame themselves if it doesn't all go to plan. It gives me the rage.

YANBU but the NCT are just the same - didn’t go out the house for 2 months after being c-section-shamed by my local NCT. There needs to be more balance of the positives and negatives of birth and more emphasis about coping when things don’t go to plan.

I agree companies shouldn't be selling the idea of control over birth. It just doesn't work that way.

This!

Agree, agree, 1000% agree. I used it and found it helpful overall, but much of it I had to take with a massive bloody industrial grit sized bag of salt. Thankfully I could, and didn’t fully sign up to the ethos.
Issues:
A) Labour isn’t painful. If it’s painful you’re not breathing deeply enough ie you are doing it wrong
B) All intervention = bad
C) Baby will come when baby is ready - no, actually when baby is two weeks overdue it needs to come out for it’s own safety.

Lots of good stuff there, but also lots of pie in the sky fluffy earth mother stuff that can set up hugely unrealistic expectations and lead to massive feelings of failure in a new mum just trying to do it all properly.

They also only let you access the learning material for 12 months so unless you have two babies within a year you’ve got to pay twice for the exact same thing.

It helped me and whilst my birth didn't at all go to plan it definitely helped me to say no when I wasn't happy with what I was being told I had to do. I think hospitals are very quick to go down the route of the drip during labour to speed things along when it isn't always necessary at that point

I would say though that reading positive stories ahead of birth was FAR better then reading realistic / negative stories. I did feel better prepared going in to it.

How is birth not women centred?

Argh, it's tricky - an explicit tenet of hypnobirthing is that you should only hear positive stories because going in frightened makes birth harder.

That depends on the kind of person you are. I heard a number of absolute horror stories when I was pregnant, just from women I was working with, they aren't all that unusual.

I do think they should be honest and practical. I was lucky, I read a very pro natural birth book but also read a basic medical book on managing labour. That gave me a balanced approach.

Nothing could have prepared me for how I felt on the day though.

That depends on the kind of person you are. I heard a number of absolute horror stories when I was pregnant, just from women I was working with, they aren't all that unusual.

Oh, I'm not saying that they're necessarily right that women should only hear good stories or that it's even realistic, but just that it is something they believe so it's not surprising they censor their social media accordingly. It's like if a church was deleting comments about atheism on their social media - it doesn't mean they're correct but I could see why they'd 'curate their content' (eurgh, wanky phrase!) in that way

@Jent13c

This blogger gave birth to her first the same time as me and had some trauma following hypnobirthing (can't remember if it was the same company or not). www.lefriend.co.uk/2017/08/why-hypnobirthing-didnt-work-for-me.html?m=1

I didn't do it but it was the flavour of the month when I gave birth to my first.

Wow very interesting and I couldn't agree more with that article! My hypnobirthing teacher pretty much ghosted me after I was induced with my DD1. Obviously I didn't fit with the ideals that she was promoting so I got dropped....

AliasGrape
Sorry for all you went through
I had a quick back to back birth and I have never felt anything like the pain of that back to back. It must have been torture for all that time x
I hate that they are setting women up to feel like failures

Thank you everyone for your messages. I think I was naive to be surprised when they deleted it, but I'm also a bit angry.
When I was in the depths of PND, I spent ages scrolling on their instagram feed reading endless comments about how much the PBC had helped women 'achieve' their 'positive, empowering birth'. (I developed a masochistic streak!) I wondered why I hadn't been able to do that, what was wrong with me.
Turns out that probably lots of other people hadn't been able to do that either, but their comments were deleted too. It makes me so angry, and they claim to be sticking up for women (or birthing people or whatever...whole other debate!)

They deleted my birth ‘story’ from their Facebook group. I think because I was fairly realistic about things and didn’t sing their praises: yes I found some of their techniques useful, no I don’t credit them with creating the perfect birth.

I find this whole movement toxic and yet another way of making a mother feel guilty if their birth isn't the "positive" experience they've hoped for. I find the individual who runs the business to be smug. I used to follow her on IG and at Christmas time, she uploaded about 10 stories slating a charity flyer she received through the post, pretty much laughing at their marketing attempt. She then said she would be happy to offer her marketing expertise. Pathetic and could have damaged the charity's fundraising attempts by calling them out.

Last night they did a reel with the founder pushing away the words ‘horror stories’ to the song shut up basically saying don’t tell negative birth stories to pregnant women. Get what they are saying but how insensitive! They got loads of pushback in the comments and they eventually deleted the reel (after saying women were telling exaggerated ‘horror stories’ in some of their initial replies). It just seems quite an immature and preachy account.

I did the PBC pack and I also don’t like the unrealistic expectations they paint. In the end I had a back to back baby and a 65 hour labour.

It was, at points, most definitely painful.

In my raw, postpartum haze I emailed them about it, I guess looking for validation. One of their employees got back to me:

The evidence shows that sometimes the fear of the pain can intensify the feeling and heighten anxiety before the process has even begun, which can prevent the oxytocin from flowing and generally make for a frightening and disempowering experience for women.

🙄

Also, their comments about birth not being a woman centred experience can fuck right off.

I found that this post really resonated with me even though I haven't used that company for hypnobirthing. I was given a hypnobirthing book and cd by my cousin who used it during her births. She had two natural birth, with no drugs or interventions and firmly believes it was because she was empowered and chose that scenario. Maybe it was, who knows?

I gave them ago and found them helpful in that I could keep anxiety at bay to some extent. I disagree with many of the principles of the positive birth company especially in that you should avoid listening to birth experiences that were traumatic or not a waterbirth, medication free and wholly natural. I am on a Facebook group for women due at the same time as me and so many have posted about other women wanting to share their 'horror'stories and how it bring a negative vibe or energy. I have to bite my lip in this type of situation as I firmly believe that going into birth thinking everything is likely to be how you planned is at best naiive and at worse dangerous. I don't volunteer my birth stories but if asked will answer honestly. It also invalidates experiences that were less than ideal or natural and I fail to see how my own experiences would impact someone else's birth negatively as it is highly unlikely they would face the exact same complications I did.

I have found from friends who have rigidly followed the positive birth company or strict hypnobirthing have felt like failures because they didn't engineer the birth they wanted and somehow prevented it by not following the mantras correctly. This is so sad and dangerous, can be a factor in women suffering pnd related to their experience.

Yanbu to be annoyed in how you feel. I actually think reviews like yours would be helpful for people who are on the fence about whether to use the company or not because it went against the grain.

As for birth not being a women centred experience, I am all for inclusitivity in language use but this is insulting.