To be surprised by the dearth of decent IT apprenticeships in a supposed tech hotspot (Manchester) ?

[Sanguinesuzy]

Ds1 has just completed his A'levels. Not expected to get stellar grades but equally not horrendous ones either. He was adamant he didn't want to go to uni. Also painfully aware that realistically his grades weren't good enough for a decent uni but didn't want to end up at a poorly regarded one but be thousands of pounds in debt all the same. He's also dyslexic and has had to surmount some fairly big academic challenges. Good GCSEs but felt a bit fed up with classroom learning. Last few weeks/months he's been applying for IT apprenticeships. He's done a cracking cover letter and cv but unfortunately heard nothing back as yet. He can't drive (although hoping to start learning in a few weeks) so his options are limited to home town and central manchester. Anything beyond that and he's literally travelling for hours on public transport and spending most of his earnings. Most of the posts are with companies not related to IT (dairy, bed company ) so I'm not sure how IT focused they will be (but appreciate we all have to start somewhere). He's now thinking about doing a HND in software design at our local uni which tbh isn't the best but may help him get a foot in the door later.
I'm just surprised about how little opportunities there are in this field considering there's a massive skills shortage plus we live 12 miles from a city supposedly full of tech firms. In our town there is literally 1 apprenticeship in IT (town of 300,000 people). Even in manchester probably 15 -20 in total. Just wondered if any tech specialists had any advise about apprenticeships, decent courses an 18 year old could do to improve his CV. Would a hnd/hnc in software design make him more employable ? Thanks in advance !

In my experience, most lower level IT functions are offshored. Significantly cheaper, and normally with higher qualifications than A level.

Depressing to hear.

Civil service jobs site sometimes has IT apprenticeships, I haven’t seen any at other companies. Private sector IME expect you to already be trained, and will still offshore where they can.

It’s more of a degree entry role than A level job these days - I was lucky to get in before the switch.

I don't think apprenticeships are usual for IT jobs, the usual route is get a qualification and either go straight into employment or do an internship. If he's looking to get work one of the quicker industry certifications like a CCNA or CompTIA might be a good place to start.

If he wants to do software development has he ever coded before? I did a graduate conversion course and the drop out rate was huge so I would encourage anyone to try it out first via free online sites like codecademy. Programming is not as hard as some people think but it does require a good grasp of logic and syntax so it really depends on the kind of thinker you are in terms of how easily you can pick it up.

Don't get hung up on qualifications from what's perceived as a poorly regarded university. I've worked in IT for years now, the last 20+ years in senior positions in large software and services companies and graduated from what would be an average university. It's done my career no harm.

I've recruited a lot of people in senior positions and am currently working with another team, helping to recruit a graduate software engineer. To be honest, we couldn't give a toss if someone graduated from Oxford/Cambridge or the average university down the road.

We don't expect them to hit the ground running and churn out anything remotely useful immediately, because they won't, they might think they will, but they just won't.

A good attitude and core skills are what we want, we can then teach them what a university can't, which is working in a commercial software development environment and they grow into the role, using the knowledge they came to us with.

@RitaFires

I don't think apprenticeships are usual for IT jobs, the usual route is get a qualification and either go straight into employment or do an internship. If he's looking to get work one of the quicker industry certifications like a CCNA or CompTIA might be a good place to start.

If he wants to do software development has he ever coded before? I did a graduate conversion course and the drop out rate was huge so I would encourage anyone to try it out first via free online sites like codecademy. Programming is not as hard as some people think but it does require a good grasp of logic and syntax so it really depends on the kind of thinker you are in terms of how easily you can pick it up.

Correct -- DH has worked in this field since uni and I don't think any company he's worked for has offered apprenticeships. It's a field where there isn't a long lead time on projects, and not a lot of time to train on the job. You're very much expected to be able to get in and get on with it, even at entry level, which means qualifications and training prior to employment.

The pace of the field doesn't lend itself well to the type of learning in an apprenticeship.

You could try widening the job search out (to ones without apprentice in the title, but junior IT/software/admin/database/excel jobs).

Sometimes manual testing, data entry, IT service desk/1st line support can be entry routes? Depending on what is available, some routes that have a standard qualification to aim for to progress.

For a software job, I think the best route in will be a degree, then a grad scheme. I don't think the uni really matters.

IT apprenticeships at non-IT companies will be more about plugging in printers and routing wires for a pittance, then out on your ear once you need minimum wage, sorry to say.

Thanks everyone. There are some level 3/4 apprenticeships coming up just not many. Not driving yet is turning out to be a big disadvantage too. He's just applied for a cybersecurity one with a big insurance company but suspect the competition will be fierce.
What do people think about HND's ? Would you acquire enough experience to be able to apply for a junior post ? Obviously he could do a final top up year to get a degree if he wanted.

@CaptainMerica Yes, there are loads of jobs in IT support/first line helpdesk. Could they be a way in ?

I work in a firm with a large in-house IT team. A lot of the junior test/dev roles//BA roles are filled from people moving from other areas of the biz having gone some training. The more senior roles usual have degrees

As stated a lot of outsourcing / offshoring has gone on on the last 20 years.

Does he actually know what area of i.t. he wants to get into? I.t. is a broad subject.

I suggest steering way from the basic support stuff.

Maybe he could do some learning via Udemy and maybe pick up some it certs if he knows what he wants to do.

Also, what about public sector organisations? It could be a bit tricky if he ends up with a not so good employer for the apprenticeship.

UK Fast do tech apprenticeships in Manchester www.ukfast.co.uk/apprenticeships.html

I have heard mixed things about the work culture there, although there is new management now so hopefully that has changed. My company use them to host our website and they are very good from the client point of view.

Both my husband and my brother are software engineers, both self taught. Brother never went to uni, husband has a degree in a totally unrelated subject and both are doing very well for themselves. The thing they both have in common is they are very interested in development, not just as a job, but do plenty of self learning and reading around their areas of specialism.

[quote Sanguinesuzy]@CaptainMerica Yes, there are loads of jobs in IT support/first line helpdesk. Could they be a way in ?[/quote]
I don't really think so, to be honest. Though, there is always the chance that he could be lucky and find a company that would have a route up from there. All the companies I've worked for needed a degree at entry level for software development.

I guess the question is what sort of thing does he want to do? For software development I would definitely look at universities. An HND could be a route towards that.

Then there is a more hardware route, e.g. networking engineer, which I don't know much about, and that might be different.

What would the fees be for a hnd? I guess the ideal would be doing the hand via some sort of day release apprenticeship.

Our company is a leading IT support company, we can't make money and are laying people off, this despite using smart hands and IT support services in Sofia.

Its not an industry i would like to be getting into now, less and less customer based project work or security and more and more cloud based, self configuring h/w, then there is 5G and beyond.

My advice would be get into health or construction style trades.

My ds2 is a front end Web developer and he did an apprenticeship in Manchester, including at UK fast who weren't great. Tell your boy to keep looking, they are out there.

Thanks everyone. Will refer him to Udemy. Also seriously start thinking about applying through clearing for a degree. Just depends on grades. He's predicted a B in CS C in Geography and a D/E in Physics. Hates physics with a vengeance. Was 2 points off a 7 in maths but 6th form college said he had to take physics because he failed English Language first time (now passed). Got a 6 in physics too but definitely his weaker subject. I think we are going to have to have a big conversation this weekend.
One more thing would doing something like the Comp Tia A+ help ?

Another thing to note is timing. Lots of big apprentice employers advertise at the start of the school year and have recruited by Jan. What makes him specifically interested in IT, and what sort of IT?

Does he just generally like computers? What interests him about IT? Get industry certs, they can get him a foot in the door. Plus home lab and personal projects to talk about in covering letter and interview to show he's keen to self learn and keep up to date. Basic undergrad level projects are openly available online, nothing stopping him setting himself a challenge by trying to build a few in his own time. There are tons of IT jobs but you have to really be into it and know your stuff. Difficult to learn if you don't have much actual interest, the deep detail and knowledge are deadly boring to most people

I think the issue is that unless it’s a huge dev team they just won’t have capacity to spend time training anyone. There’s always more work to be done than time to do it and an apprentice would just be too huge a drain on resources sadly.

In all honesty, some of the specialisms that IT apprenticeships are available in aren’t really entry-level jobs. They’re trying to market them that way because there are so many incentives to increase the numbers going through apprenticeships, but I think a lot of people in IT are wary. You don’t necessarily need to be a graduate for these roles, but a few years in a junior IT role or a related business area are really useful. I would suggest that your son looks for an IT service desk role and works his way up that way. If he’s bright and he works hard and shows the right attitude he’ll only have to do a couple of years on a service desk before he can move up.
And if he struggles to get his foot in the door at service desk level, then take a step back again- look at general contact centre work and aim to move into IT service desk in a couple of years.
Generally, I wouldn’t worry too much about professional qualifications. Paper professionals with no experience are ten a penny, and most recruiters value the experience more. And once he’s got the job, employers will often pay for the training and qualifications to formalise the experience.

IT in schools is big at the moment have you looked at IT technician jobs either direct with the school or the companies that support the systems

Would he be interesting in pursuing a career in cyber security? I'd recommend that over anything else in IT personally, keep an eye on QA apprentiships, GCHQ has a site in Manchester, and although a stretch the RAF offers good opportunities now to study alongside serving; plenty leave after their return of service into lucrative jobs.

Have to had a look at GMACS? You can filter the results by ‘Digital’ - there are lots in digital marketing which may not be of interest but also some IT systems, support roles etc.

gmacs.co.uk/search-live-apprenticeships

Lots of companies that traditionally offer graduate schemes have now expanded to provide higher level apprenticeships - Barclays, BT, Rolls Royce, BBC etc all have digital/technology/IT apprenticeship schemes. These are very competitive as they are aimed at students who would be strong candidates for traditional degree courses - and tend to open for applications about the same time as UCAS forms will be being submitted. Your son could check out the entry requirements for suitable schemes now and get some entry level experience that would strengthen his application in the meantime?

Otherwise - public sector organisations often have good apprenticeship schemes. I would set up alerts for apprenticeships in your area with civil service jobs, nhs jobs, and the local/city council.