Working Hours in Hospitality

[WishfulThinking1985]

I have recently started a new role within hospitality (waiter in hotel/restaurant) along with 20 other new recruits most of whom are in their late teens. I am in my mid 50s. I enjoy my job and the people I work with but am confused/frustrated by the legislation and rights of employees in this sector.
This recruitment drive came on the back of a re-opening after the recent lockdown due to the covid pandemic. We have all signed zero hour contracts and we were informed that this would be reviewed after 4 months and potentially given permanent contracts based on performance. It has subsequently been announced that the business is closing down for 4-6 months at some point during the winter for extensive refurbishment (so we are assuming those of us on zero hour contracts will be let go rather than be given permanent contracts).
Although I am only working between 30-40 hours per week at my own request (due to young children and wife's work commitments) I am constantly being challenged to work more unsociable hours to fit in with the remainder of the workforce but I am constantly pushing back.
Most of my colleagues are asked to work an 11 hour shift (Midday - 11pm) followed by a 6.30am start the following day. Others have on occasions worked 11 consecutive days without a rest day. Many have left within the first 2 months since re-opening and the vast majority of the remaining staff are tired, disillusioned and unmotivated. As a result their general attitude and performance has dipped but the general management don't seem to be reacting to the unrest or don't want to listen to the feedback they are receiving.
I am a proud father and a hard worker by nature so I along with a handful of other professional minded individuals seem to be ploughing a lone furrow while the rest of the workforce becomes more disengaged by the day.
Surely, a few positive moves by the management team to stem the current demise in workforce disenchantment is required to arrest the situation.
Potential improvements are to provide a fortnightly rota where employees can plan their lives better and the business can plan manpower more efficiently (we currently provide a fortnightly availability list but this only manifests into a muddled and short notice weekly rota).
Also, with a little more application and care a rota can be drawn up to ensure people do get the necessary time off between shifts and adequate rest days per week.
And lastly a little more general understanding and respect for the workforce would go a long way to improving team morale, work ethic and attitudes.
Thanks for taking the time to read my experiences. Would be good to hear/listen to others with similar experiences and understand what works well for your business and what needs improving. What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.

You’re supposed to have 11 hours rest in a day. So finishing at 11 & having a shift at 6:30 is not on.
Major red flags in what you’ve written. I’d be looking for other employment.

Honestly that sounds pretty standard for hospitality. I've worked some terrible hours in the past, I've done 4pm-6am because I had to stay and get things done, split shifts doing 7-11am then 6pm till close then back in for 7.

It's awful and one of the reasons I vowed to leave the industry but haven't yet. Right now I have it pretty good because I'm part time and only do 16 hours a week. I will be back to doing the early hours finish times some weekends but that's unavoidable in this kind of industry. My current place of work doesn't make people work crazy hours or split shifts, the hours are antisocial yes and some shifts are better than others but anybody who goes for a job in this industry will know that it's part of the job.

Managers aren't likely to change unless they suddenly find themselves with no staff. It's a low skilled job so it's not hard to keep a constant turnover. Maybe that will change now there is a country shortage of staff, I don't know.

This is the nature of hospitality, I used to work 7am (breakfast) to 1am with a 2 hour split 5 days a week before Dd.

However you shouldn’t be doing a split and then a breakfast. It does sound like a shit company tbh op.

I work for a lovely restaurant atm, who factors in all the days/evenings I can work and is very flexible regarding childcare. So they do exist! But you need to look at small independent places rather than big groups who don’t give a fuck who works for them as long as they work.

I know this is really unhelpful but that's the hospitality industry. The hours are terrible a d the rest periods are awful it's all about catering to the business and numbers on any given day. So an 11pm finish and a 6am start are pretty normal.
I've worked 24 hour shifts, you arrive do your shift and can't get away at the end as someone else is sick, not turned up, it's busier than anticipated etc.
Honestly look for something else. Hospitality hotels in particular are not unionised, it's seen as normal practice and you get on with it or leave there's a reason that staff turnover is high as it sucks the life out of you, becomes your entire life weekends, bank holidays, Christmas spent working.
If you are on a zero hours contract I know from experience, that if you are pushing back about hours and rest periods when hours drop you will be the first one to lose those hours. It's wrong, it's shitty but it's what they will do.

Look for a permanent job in a hotel or restaurant

Hospitality is brutal. If you are struggling I'd recommend looking for something else. Retail isn't too much of a jump and although it also has its issues, the hours are usually better simply due to the opening times of shops.

Hospitality has always been this way. I don't want to sound glib, but welcome to unfortunate reality that people have been living for years pre-covid.

I did hospitality for 7 years, around 6 different firms and sadly this is how it is.

I found that it would great for me whilst I was still i education as I could pick up loads of shifts and earn extra in the holidays and then say no to stuff when I had stuff on.

I went full time after graduating and realised how rubbish it is when you want to have a life. I was basically working 7-3, 5-12 from Weds-Sun each week with no permitted leave during busy months (so anything from May-Sept and all over Xmas I could never take a weekend off). I wanted to work my way up high enough to change the culture but I never made it that far before I quit to go and get a graduate job itself.

I also was treating like shite by some of the managers in certain venues. Some were lovely and I made friends for life, other places I was screamed at on a regular basis or gaslight and manipulated. Their attitude seems to be “we’ll do everything we can to try and break you and if you survive that (usually by being a twat yourself) we will promote you 🤔”.

I agree essentially- there is a lot hospitality can do to help it’s own staff shortage or it will forever rely on teenagers wanting part time work rather than attracting good permanent staff.

Thanks all for your comments and feedback regarding my post on hospitality working hours. I am not averse to working long sociable hours but what frustrates me is the lack of effort, initiative, motivation and drive from the management team to make the culture better, develop youngsters and take pride in offering guests a great experience. I know this does not apply to all management teams but a little input from the top downwards can often have amazing results but just accepting "it is what it is" is the easy way out. Anyway, wish you all the best with your personal journey. Stay strong and keep safe.

Hospitality isn't a low skilled job, it's just usually a low paid one.

Welcome to hospitality!

This is how it has always been, particularly for full time workers. The industry has always treated its staff like crap with ridiculous unsocial hours, split shifts, working on bank holidays, poor working conditions, useless management etc. That’s why I left the industry and I won’t be returning.

I’m know someone who works in the industry and what shocked me most- apart from the late finishes and early starts- was the fact that the “casuals” can be booked from say 11-7, but if it’s quiet, they can be dismissed at say 4.45 and not get paid for the hours they were booked for. Atrocious, especially when some people have to pay a hefty train/bus fare or petrol they can Ill afford on their meagre wages. And if the loos are a mess, they often have to clean them even then they are immediately handling food straight after. Pathetic industry which is shit to its loyal staff who take a lot of crap from the public.

Ps. I am currently in similar low paid positions even though I have a degree (due to mental health issues and not wanting stress) and am looking for other low skilled, hopefully stress free work which pays a bit more than roughly £9.60, more or less what I’m on for my main position. If anyone knows other types of jobs I could do to earn more, please let me know. Low stress required, and not cleaning, care or childcare, ideally
something away-ish from the public pls!
Sorry to hijack your thread, OP!

I dinvt think it's legal (even in the UK) to have a 6:30 start after an 11pm finish?

Hospitality needs to sort its act out. There is no reason outside greed for the employers to treat their staff like this. There is a reason a lot of high end places have changed their hours (no lunchtime in the week etc) and some of it is to do with staff retention.

They were moaning why they can't get the staff. This is why.

@QuestionableMouse absolutely. I studied for 3yrs to get all my certificates and even though technically you don't have to have them a lot of businesses expect them. Also you have to renew them every 3yrs, often at your own expense. Not in the same league as, say, nurses or other professionals that have to register themselves but still. Experience and skill is expected but not rewarded.

@Brefugee it isn't legal. You are also supposed to have breaks but 90% of the places I've worked it doesn't happen. Or if you do get a break it's only allowed to be taken if it's not busy at the time. Sometimes you will get pay deducted for a break anyway but not actually get the break. You are right that this is exactly why places are struggling, staff aren't willing to put up with the shit anymore! I'm certainly not, I'll be leaving it forever the second I'm able to.

The industry doesn't care, you're expected to do it and not complain, if you do you'll often be sacked or have your hours cut.

I worked in hospitality around the world for about 30 years from food server/pot wash up to senior management… the hours are brutal in all countries… at every level and it is really only in the big corporates at head office level where work life balance becomes a reality. The profit margins are so tight and people are the greatest cost that there will never be enough staff, this combined with the fact that hospitality works when the rest of the population rests/plays means that enabling good working hours and work life balance will remain largely elusive. It’s a harsh world, but for 30 years it was my life and I loved it… and then I wanted weekends and Christmas off so I left!

You are right that this is exactly why places are struggling, staff aren't willing to put up with the shit anymore! I'm certainly not, I'll be leaving it forever the second I'm able to.

Good luck! DH is in the business but not with stupid hours/bosses. But I really wish everyone could pack it in and train as something else (lorry drivers are in short supply...)

I used to be a manager in a hotel and honestly, it's mainly budget based.
Sometimes it was cheaper to have one or two people working longer shifts than a few people working shorter shifts.
Your managers will be getting it in the neck by the finance managers about why they're spending over budget, fiance manager getting it in the neck by GM, GM in the neck by AM, AM by RM and upwards and upwards. Also, the higher up the chain you go, the more departments/venues you include and therefore more money lost.

Also often hospo staff at the bottom of the pile are seen as dispensable. Honestly, wait until one of the senior managers have to work a bar or floor shift and you'll never hear the end of it.

Also, it's absolutely not legal but that doesn't change anything.
If you don't do the shitty shifts you're seen as "not a team player" and trust me, your managers will be talking or know managers of other hotels/venues and they will tell them that as/when you look to move.

I knew who the "shit-staff" in other hotels were because my mates would tell me.

Yup, pretty standard for hospitality. DH has been a chef as long as I've known him and usually works long shifts without breaks, often his pay is still deducted for the breaks he couldn't take because it covers up for the company. He often doesn't get much of a break between shifts. He rarely gets time off with me so we can actually spend some time together. He has 0 hours or no contract and works lots of or very little hours with no pattern to work out average income.

Also can’t believe these jobs have unpaid breaks, that you’re forced to take whether you want one or not. I’d rather come in later or go early if I’m not being paid for that time. Tight bastards!

Sounds awful and is probably illegal. No wonder there’s a recruitment crisis!

My partner has been a waiter all his working life he's now 45 his hours are horrendous but it's just the way it is in hospitality.

I get a 45 minute break but yes, it's unpaid.

I used to manage a hotel and what you've described is really common. It was written into my contract that I understood I might have to sometimes work more than my contracted hours which might include waiving my rights to working regs on occasion. On occasion obvs ended up meaning all the time!