Unlock the doors please, GP surgeries

[Tiari]

to think, if restrictions are lifted on July 19, then GP surgeries will open their doors?
We should be able to walk in freely and up to the reception desk for queries, appointments etc?

I don't understand the mentality of Mumsnet against GPs.

I'm sorry. There's a shortage of doctors in the UK, because of shit pay, working conditions and generally being underfunded by the current government. Same with nurses.

Yes 70K-100k might seem a lot of pay to you, but the fact they can get their appropriate market rates abroad, with much better working conditions, means that many are leaving the uk. Wouldn't you if you could?

Complain to the government. My DP is a GP in training, we are planning to leave to Australia unless he can get a particularly good contract here. He has been flooded with job offers here already despite not finishing training, as GPs are crying out for more DRs but there's none.

Re the GPs going into private practice if we 'don't appreciate them'. I don't know what GPs who haven't worked privately expect is going to be the norm. But I had a back problem which had gone on for months (6 months plus). I had a consultation with a GP at my surgery who recommended a physio appointment. Physio did an examination from the other side of the room and said a steroid injection was the only way forward (or surgery if that didn't work).

Another GP at the practice, quite rightly in my opinion, suggested anti inflammatories first. They didn't work so I had an injection.

Three months later it still wasn't better so my own GP said I needed to see a consultant. As we had private medical insurance for a limited range of problems, I contacted them. I had a regular video session with a physio at first who was surprised that a) the initial physio hadn't suggested some muscle strengthening exercises and b) the GP hadn't asked for physio alongside the anti inflammatories as that was general good practice for my issue.

Five weeks later the problem has gone. No consultant needed, just physio.

But my point is that I asked for a weekend appointment. My sessions were all on Sundays. Our DS had a tiny growth which could have been cancerous (luckily wasn't) a few years ago and the NHS wait times were huge. So we took out a loan and got him seen privately. The consultant arranged to cut out the growth and asked when we wanted it done. I said 'what's your diary like' to which she replied 'You're paying, you choose the date'. We plumped for a Saturday afternoon just before a bank holiday and he was back at school on the Tuesday.

I pay...I choose the date. And people who pay don't appreciate their consultants more, they expect more, demand more and usually get it because they are paying.

So GPs can go into private practice. Good luck with that having been on both sides of the fence as a patient.

@Tiari

Doors will be opened, phones will be answered, appointments will be made. If not why not?

All this is already being done.

Not sure why it isn't where you are?

The NHS and GP surgeries are running on bare bones.

People should unfortunately expect to pay privately if they want faster and fully cared for treatment. It will only get worse in the next decade.

The waiting room was back open at mine as of last week. I have to say they have been brilliant though whilst 'closed', just park up, call them, tell them your car reg or if you were on foot and they came to the door and waved you in when it was your turn. So more of a car park waiting room rather than not seeing people face to face.

My GP has been brilliant. You now fill in a form with symptoms and tick whether you would prefer a message, phone call or face to face and potential times. Both times I have used it I have send over a photo and had a call with the doctor within hours of submitting the form and a prescription the same day.

@LizJamIsFab yes, sorry, I was trying to say I’m happy with how it went for me and that I was lucky enough to still be able to get it sorted. I really like my GP surgery.
It varies so much from surgery to surgery and it’s clear from replies on this thread that my situation isn’t the same for others. I was fine with having telephone appointments when needed but it’s not suitable for everyone and clearly people are being turned away, so I was trying to say that whilst my experience was good it’s a shame others are being let down. That probably was not clear!! 🤦‍♀️

You can’t just walk into my gp, you can buzz and speak to the receptionist. You can have f2f appointments.
I’ve had plenty in the last year, newly diagnosed crohns, gp was/is fantastic.
Son has seen gp twice with asthma and my 11 year old has seen once with abdo pain and then with migraines. All in person. I’ve also had appointments over the phone and been asked to come in to be seen. I’ve no complaints.

Ours is firmly locked, prescriptions thrown out of a side window. You have to phone reception to say you're there, so you can wait outside for 30 minutes trying to get through, then they're shitty you've missed your appointment time.

I think GPs were told to open their doors some weeks ago now but have ignored the instruction.

It's not just GPs though, dentists are keeping their doors closed too.

Phone appointments are good for a lot of things, but many GPs are not even offering those, and they are not good for everything anyway.

@Pepsi9090 you can’t utter “shit pay” and “70-100k” in the same breath. Unless you mean that other HCPs, not GPS, are poorly paid in which case fair enough.

@Pepsi9090

I don't understand the mentality of Mumsnet against GPs.

I'm sorry. There's a shortage of doctors in the UK, because of shit pay, working conditions and generally being underfunded by the current government. Same with nurses.

Yes 70K-100k might seem a lot of pay to you, but the fact they can get their appropriate market rates abroad, with much better working conditions, means that many are leaving the uk. Wouldn't you if you could?

Complain to the government. My DP is a GP in training, we are planning to leave to Australia unless he can get a particularly good contract here. He has been flooded with job offers here already despite not finishing training, as GPs are crying out for more DRs but there's none.

Thats the trouble in the UK we are too soft!

Given GP training is subsided by the taxpayer we should insist that qualified GP's stay to practice here in the UK for at least 4 years after they qualify. To give something back to the country that trained them!

So how does your husband intend to repay the British taxpayer?

cup, pepsi’s OH is under no obligation to repay the British taxpayer. If the gov’t would like to go down that route they can pass the relevant legislation. It’s really not viable to appeal to the consciences of individual trainee GPs.

My practice (in a deprived bit of London) is a mixed bag. I’d say I can always get an appointment within 10 days or so using an online system. I broadly prefer a phone call to having to hang around a waiting room, especially with a young child - but have also experienced the absurdity of a phone consultation for a toddler’s skin rash. One very senior GP retired just before covid and I’m not quite sure who they’ve got in now - there are a couple of permanent staff (as in, I recognise their names when I book), locums, and one young Scottish doctor who I think/hope has joined the practice permanently. I’ve definitely noticed more mistakes/delays over the past two years - being sent the wrong form for a blood test, being sent a one-off prescription rather than a repeat when the latter would’ve been appropriate etc. I think the GPs are really run off their feet.

If a fulltime GP really is getting £100k of public money in salary as has been said upthread, I think a 50 hour working week is a pretty good deal tbh. Many of us work beyond our contracted hours for much less.

@Reallybadidea

£100k is not being paid well? How so?

It doesn't really matter whether you consider them well paid or not, the fact is that they are paid considerably more in other countries, so that's where they go.

Our healthcare professionals are trained at a cost to the British taxpayer so have they no responsibility to pay that back? Or just rip us off and disappear overseas? Wheres the morality in that?

All training contracts should have a 4 year mimimum payback clause or they dont get onto the courses like they used to do in Germany.

To have become a GP a doctor will have already been working for minimum of 5 years post their medical degree. Most will have worked longer.
Most will have paid tuition fees.
All will be tax payers.

@Alternista exactly. I work 50 hour weeks (way more than my contract) and I’m on less than £25k.

Hoping ours open up soon - if you need anything it's impossible to get through on the phone. You can only call between certain hours for certain things - when you do get an appointment (had one for flu jab and one for blood tests) they don't allow you inside it's all done on the car park. Luckily havnt needed to see a doctor but my parents have had to ring at opening time for around 2 weeks to get an appointment.

[quote showerbeer]@Alternista exactly. I work 50 hour weeks (way more than my contract) and I’m on less than £25k.[/quote]
Then go and train as a doctor and take the ten years years to qualify.

@Alternista I know there are many who work harder for less. I see how hard cleaners work in three jobs. I rage inside when I hear acquaintances who work in the City (many of whom work exceptional hours) say the poor are lazy. That said, how many years of study do you think it takes to become a GP? What's the starting salary for a junior doctor? Does a broken system put the GP at personal risk of court every day. She wasn't working in primary care but the system failed Dr Bawa Garba in my opinion. I've seen over worked colleagues end up in court (and one deserving one). International comparisons are not easy due to cost of living and no one makes a GP work nor work in the UK but I've seen colleagues emigrate for much more money and better resources and not just to USA and Australian. Lord Bethell and the government's approach to COVID and primary care has encouraged more GPs and nursers/ANPs/NPs I know to prioritise plans to emigrate.

And as our GPs and nurses have changed out of PPE in car parks in the snow in Winter or sweated in PPE in Summer for home visits and never had one working day when we've not seen patients face to face in 2021 or 2020. I look around and do see the costs of the last year and a half or so in burn out. Perhaps not as bad as colleagues in ITU or respiratory but it looks like many PPs see it as a race to the bottom. Wouldn't encourage any DC to become HCP though I know most aquaintances in other professions say the same.

I agree something needs putting in to prevent people from buggaring off. My last employers had this written in our contracts that if they paid for courses for us we had to stay. The same way extended maternity is paid back if you resign during a specific time period. All tax payers before, during and afterwards.

Our surgery is open plan so until we have ceiling to desk screens in place we won't be opening our doors to everyone. Only those with appointments can come in. Shops etc protect their staff with screens so we will be the same.

Having hearing loss and dislike of exercise I would much rather speak to patients face to face instead of running from door to computer and back again trying to sort out queries.

@kashazzam

To have become a GP a doctor will have already been working for minimum of 5 years post their medical degree. Most will have worked longer. Most will have paid tuition fees. All will be tax payers.

This. I don't think people understand this. In 'training' doesn't mean at uni, DP has been working on the covid ward the past year, it has emotionally and physically exhausted him.

Since finishing uni 5 years ago, DP been working in multiple hospitals in multiple different wards. You wouldn't 'know' he was in training if you were his patient on the ward he is currently working in where is often the most senior DR with consultants being away.

I think he has 'paid' enough back to choose where he wants to work when he fully 'qualifies' next year.

Medical students have paid fees for some time which to be fair exceed the £9k fees for subjects like medicine. I thihk they might be overjoyed to have that netted off with doctors receiving market rates when working during training and on the treadmill. I suspect the tax payer would be paying much more to all medical students and junior doctors rather than this notion of those who emigrate are ripping off the taxpayer. How many years of work do you think it takes to qualify as a GP? Do you think that involves sitting in a lecture theatre rather than doing what is work and patient care?