to tell my DH and FIL not to tell SIL that her DD is a terror?

[noyummymummy]

I will try and make this concise. My SIL has a two year old DD who is a holy terror. SIL and partner have a very relaxed approach to her tantrums and don't discipline her at all. You can imagine that this makes family outings a real treat :-)

A couple weeks ago my FIL was recounting a story where he was really embarrassed by her during a visit with family friends. He said that afterwards the friends actually told him not to invite my SIL and her daughter back to their house. Ouch.

In the course of this conversation, my DH and FIL have decided that they are going to confront my SIL with this and tell her to get the discipline sorted. I have told them that this is NOT the way to go and to button it unless SIL asks for advice.

Please give me your thoughts or approaches to this - I have a sinking feeling that this is all going to come out at Christmas (the next planned family get together) and it makes me want to run for the hills.

You should also know that SIL is very emotional/prone to overreaction and always feels that she is ganged up upon by her brothers and dad.

Could you talk to her on her own?

Do you think she would appreciate some ideas for disipline?

Does she not think her child's behaviour is a problem?

She probably feels bullied by her dd too and maybe she would like to do things differently but doesn't get support from her DP (or vice versa).
I agree that they shouldn't confront her, perhaps someone (you?) could chat about how difficult it all is and subtly email her this site or print off one of their leaflets.

Don't talk to her yourself - she'll shoot you as the messenger. If your dh and his dad feel things are that bad, and it sounds as though they are, then let them go ahead.

If she feels her parenting is being attacked, they just have to point out that other people are requesting that she doesn't visit and that should make her aware of the impact of her style of parenting. It may not make her change it, but she can't then claim not to realise its effect. If she asks for your opinion, then give it as gently as possible, but I do really think this is something that her immediate family should handle.

definately tell your FIL and DH to keep their noses out. You say that they have a laid back approach to tantruming, perhaps they choose to be this way as they feel that their DD is just expressing herself or that to "punish" or "discipline" will only fuel the tantrums by giving them the attention they demand? Just a thought. You dont say anywhere in your post that your SIL seems stressed by the behaviour, so its just one of things where you have to respect the other persons parenting choice.

Just out of interest, how bad is she, my DD is becoming quite willful too, she is 2 - i have been told she is likely to be bright, perhaps your SIL DD is a bright spark too and frustrated. Could it be that she is not getting attention at family outings etc?

Blimey. Everyone should keep their mouths shut. Those family friends could have been a bit more discreet too.

My sil wants to tell my other sil that she needs to discipline her children better and that they have poor manners. For what it's worth I agree with what she wants to say but have told her that it really is an absolute no no to do so. (she doesn't have any children of her own either so I think it's a double insult to have your parenting criticised by those who live in wonderful ignorant bliss!!)

Anyway tell them to butt out and make it clear that you won't support them in the inevitable fall out.

i think the best thing they could do, your FIL and DH, is offer her some extra love and support, and be open to discussing her dd's behaviour IF sil wants to.

They really shouldn't confront her and 'tell her to get the discipline sorted' - how outrageous! How on earth could ANYTHING constructive come out of that conversation??????????????? Blimey!

Connor has put it perfectly - 'tell them to butt out and make it clear you won't support them in the inevitable fall out".

Has SIL ever said anything that suggests she finds her dd's behaviour hard to deal with? Maybe FIL/DH could ASK her how she finds things and if she'd like a bit of help with the tantrums?

How on earth could the friends have been more discreet? If the child was so badly behaved that they felt that strongly, then I think they had every right to make their feelings known. It must have taken a lot of courage to say what they did - and presumably the OP's dh and fil didn't think any differently or they would be defending the child rather than girding their loins to speak to her mother.

Why does everyone think it's a bad idea to point out how badly the child is behaving? Of course everyone has their own parenting style and are entitled to that, but if it results in a terribly behaved child (and the op did describe her as a "holy terror"), then I think people have as much right to speak their minds. Undoubtedly the SIL won't like it, but it might just make her think that her style of parenting could result in her dd being excluded from family visits and treats.

Hi Lucyellensmum, This may clarify - the incident at the friends house was that the two year old was throwing food at the dinner table as everyone was sitting around. SIL didn't remove her from the table but gently told her that it wasn't nice and to stop. Of course she didn't stop and it quickly ended the meal - The other things she does are the norm - biting, pushing, screaming etc etc. To be honest, she is a normal two year old -without any rules placed upon her..

NKF - agree with you about the friends - they are a bit uppity

FIL thinks that if they allow it to continue at this stage, it will only get worse (have to agree on that one)..

she sounds exactly like my little girl, if she were throwing food at the table, i would say "duck everyone". Maybe your SIL thought that removing her from the table might exacerbate the situation. My little girl is going through the biting punching screaming stage too - maybe i should start spanking her! My advise is to tell the SIL that the friends dont want her to take her DD again. If it were me, i would be saying fine, thats just fine - they sound a bit anal if you ask me.

I do agree that no-one should say anything about discipline. They will do it their own way

But LEM.. if your dd was throwing food at the table, would you really just say "everyone duck?"

Might be ok at home if that's what you're used to... but what if she did it when in a restraunt?

Not that there's anything wrong with the way you would deal with it, just different from what I would do I guess

noyummymummy, I wish you luck.

My experience of this is no matter what you say, those that want to give their 'parenting advice' are going to do so anyway - regardless of any intervention on your part.

Can you arrange to be out of the country for the next few months?

Also quite shocked at LEM thinking it's ok to let child throw food in someone else's house. Did you mean that?

i regularly take DD to cafes and resturants, and she regularly makes an unholy mess! Its what two year olds do. Although, bless her heart she does go and get some paper napkins and clear up what she has dropped on the floor as i always pick up stuff we drop as i dont expect the staff to clear up after my child. She doesnt throw things per se, she is just a messy eater. As for being in someone elses house, i dont think i know anyone who is particularly houseproud who would invite a two year old to dinner and not expect a mess. Would i say everyone duck?? Only if i thought i was in the company of a bunch of stuck up idiots then yes, i think i might, but i wouldtn would i because i dont mix with stuck up idiots who would expect me not to take my child there again.

its a really dificult because by the sound of it something needs to be said if her behaviour is really bad but its probably not adviseable for your dh and fil to go in all guns blazing telling her to get it sorted. Is there anyone in the family who could talk to her in a non confrontational way?

It could be that she has issues with how her parents disciplined her and the way she is with her dd is a reflection of this iyswim

hope it doesnt ruin christmas for you

Unless she asks, no one should say anything. Run for the hills!

Thanks everyone. Hope you don't mind, but I told DH about this thread and the responses - think he gets it now.. (looked at me strangely and said 'what's mumsnet?') hah!

Let's see if I can get FIL signed up