Kid told to go and chase the birds

[GOODCAT]

I don't have kids, but was at the coast this morning when I overheard an adult, presume mum, tell a young girl to go and chase the birds, said in a way that meant she was to go and entertain herself by doing this.

My own parents would have told me off for this and to be kind to other living creatures.

It always annoys me when I see kids chasing birds and their parents saying nothing, but to actively encourage a kid to do so is a first.

AIBU to find it sad that this kid was being encouraged to chase birds for no other purpose than her own entertainment.

Meh. The birds can fly away.

@littlejalapeno

Dude you’re the one insinuating I and my kid are cruel to animals because I don’t have your professional nanny experience and don’t agree with the OP.

The relationship you have with the child you give birth to will be different from any other relationship.

And you will then have a different experience of and perspective on child care and raising children to child free people’s. Hopefully your nanny experience will be more power to you and you won’t find yourself knackered and overwhelmed saying “just go play over there for a bit darling” so you can lie face down on the floor in peace for two minutes. Anyway a sense of humour will get you far. Good luck on your pregnancy, I’m stepping away now.

Seagulls are devils though I won’t compromise on that.

We already covered the "you don't have kids so your opinion doesn't count' shit at the start of the thread. Being a parent doesn't excuse you from letting your kids do what they want just because you're too tired to bother. I had 4 kids in quick succession and they were never allowed to chase birds or be cruel to animals no matter how rubbish I was feeling. 'I'm at the end of my tether go and watch tv' is vastly different to 'I'm at the end of my tether go and chase some birds'.

Thank goodness pigeon has been teaching her charges not to be cruel to animals and no doubt will make a great mum with decent child/ren who are kind to creatures. Pity there's not more people/parents like this.

@Hatethisplacetho

OP do you also think cars / buses / bikes / trains / crowds of people etc should be prevented from making birds fly away?! Where do you live that the birds have right of way everywhere? My 18 month old follows pigeons around in the park and is thrilled by it, the pigeons are unharmed, she is very slow and has no intention of hurting them. Sometimes she gets close enough for them to fly away, is that seriously animal terrorism in your eyes?

As far as I'm aware cars buses etc aren't sentient

You think it's fine for your child to frighten animals for fun. Many other people do not.

Where do you draw the line? Which animals is it ok to frighten and which aren't?

We have a massive pigeon problem where I live. A huge amount of money has recently putting mesh under a bridge to stop them nesting. They’re vermin.

I wonder if how long the “be kind to all animals” rhetoric would last in the face of an infestation of mice? Here’s a hint - humane traps don’t work, they come back and bring a load of mates with them.

@Blossomtoes again, the point is about a child scaring a bird for fun. This is not the same as an infection of mice in your house which is a health hazard. It’s the attitude that animals exist for our entertainment that is the problem. I and many others have said this dozens of times on the thread now.

It makes zero difference to the animal whether it’s scared by a child, a car or a dinosaur. A scared animal is a scared animal.

Pigeons actually choose highly populated areas to congregate. They’re so “scared” they fly a few yards and settle again. If they were as terrified as you all make out they’d fly a mile.

They’re also vermin, just like mice. They damage structures and carry disease. Like mice. Defra defines them as such.

The double standards and hypocrisy on MN blows my mind.

@Peaplant20

Well I hope the only pet you have ever had were rescue pets
Keep away from zoo's and aquarium's circuses and the like
I hope you have a nice wild garden for any animal's
And of course watch where you step always

Unfortunately we are totally overpopulated and to feed and house the millions of parasites (humans) we have destroyed the habitat of many animals and its only going to continue until people start to appreciate and respect animals
I hope this happens in my lifetime but I'm doubtful

But I still let my daughter try n catch a pigeon

@Blossomtoes it makes no difference to the pigeon as it doesn’t know what’s scared it but it’s just not a nice thing to do to purposefully scare it? @Greenrubber never understand when someone suggests doing something on mumsnet (eg not purposefully scaring animals) always descends into ‘well that means you can’t do this this or this either’ two wrongs don’t make a right and it’s better to try and do some things than nothing at all? This is quite hilarious because actually I have only owned rescue pets in my adult life, I’ve not been to the circus since I was a child (has anyone? I don’t think they really exist any more) and I also haven’t been to a zoo in about 15 years because I don’t agree with them. They’re not difficult things to do. You’ve got me on the aquarium one though! I put my hands up that yes I have been to an aquarium so I guess I may aswell abandon all my morals and go around scaring pigeons now. Come on - just because someone does visit zoos etc doesn’t mean they should go around scaring pigeons doesn’t make any sense. Why are you trying to argue a position that it’s ok to go around scaring animals? Can’t see how you’ll ever win anyone round on that one. And I don’t really understand what point you’re making - in the first paragraphs you’re telling me it’s pointless to care about scaring pigeons unless you do all of the other things, but then in the second paragraph you’re saying I hope more people start to respect animals? Two contradictory points.

Am I allowed to chase the seagulls off my chips?

Oh watching where you step isn’t the same as, again, the point is about intentionally going out of your way to scare animals.

I don’t go to zoos either. I don’t have pets because I don’t really love the concept of having animals for our needs and not theirs, although I have and would have rescued ones again in a heartbeat, which is a different thing. I’d never ‘shop’ for a new pet though, only adopt from a rescue. I love wildlife and feed the birds and the bees and foxes and donate to animal charities.

It’s not a race to the bottom. It’s ok to respect an animal’s environment and go out of your way to be kind, you don’t have to say ‘well I do like going to the zoo and I have a pedigree cat bred specifically so I could own it so therefore I might as well chase off these pigeons because I think they’re dirty and annoying’

U are all missing the point because a child I can only speak for my own had no intention of scaring the bird
Your all making out as if they are doing it deliberately to be cruel they are not they are just curious
They won't hurt the bird or even catch the bird
There are alot bigger problems in the world than a child chasing a pigeon it's not cruel

You all sit there on your moral high ground but I can gaurantree no one in here is perfect

I'm not contradicting myself because I don't believe my child chasing a pigeon is cruel or disrespectful
🤦‍♀️

The bird doesn’t know if the thing chasing it it wants to cuddle it or eat it. They don’t call it ‘bird brain’ for nothing. It’s cruel to chase or tease animals.

Great to teach your child to be curious about birds!

This can absolutely be done in a way that doesn’t involve harassing them.

@Greenrubber the child doesn’t know it’s cruel but the parents do. So the parents shouldn’t encourage them to do it. That’s the point.

U are all missing the point because a child I can only speak for my own had no intention of scaring the bird
Your all making out as if they are doing it deliberately to be cruel they are not they are just curious

No, you seem to be missing the point - by and large we're not blaming the child. It's the parent encouraging them to do this who is being criticised. Maybe they don't realise that chasing birds can harm them, or maybe they just don't give a shit - either way, it's not good.

It's not cruel
Your being silly

Instinct tells a bird to fly away even when a jogger minding their own business runs past it

I thought of this thread earlier when I opened my back door, startling a pigeon just outside which flew away. Was this a traumatic experience for the pigeon? Would it have been animal cruelty to have done it deliberately? According to this thread the answer is definitely yes, but I’m really not convinced.

Was this a traumatic experience for the pigeon?

Of course it was. It will be clutching itself and rocking and it will take it years of therapy to recover. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Accidentally startling a pigeon as you go about your business is NOT THE SAME THING AS ENCOURAGING A CHILD TO CHASE AND TORMENT THEM.

How is that so difficult to grasp? I think it’s quite obvious there is no justification for the above, therefore certain posters keep clinging to irrelevant points that are not at all what the OP outlined in the first place.

Fat pigeons which choose to inhabit gardens... sure, they're probably not exactly bothered. (We have some which just walk away when I let our dog out.)

But does a kid who is encouraged to chase birds for fun make a distinction between pigeons and hills vs other types which may live on our coasts and not be so robust? Maybe some of the adults posting on this thread neither know nor care either...

Ok here’s a metaphor to help you understand. If a dog hears a door slam shut while it’s sleeping because there’s a breeze, it might make the dog jump, make its heart race for a few seconds etc. If the dog is sleeping and someone claps in its face to wake it up, the same response happens. One is mean and one isn’t. Just because other things can cause the stress response in the dog and make it wake up, doesn’t make it not mean to clap in its face to wake it up.

Hills.... I'm sure I typed gulls. The woodpigeons aren't that big.

I've seen worse things to be fair....

I think you will find alot of kids don't need parental encouragement to chase a bird or two
I've never seen a adult tell a child to chase a bird either so I reckon it's pretty uncommon
But I doubt the bird is that bothered it's not like the kids can fly and actually catch them