To hate double entry bookkeeping?

[SunFlowerRose]

I’m really hoping you will be able to help me, because this is my last ditch attempt before I throw away 8 months worth of payments on a bookkeeping and accounting course which would cost even more in an early get out fee.

I work full time in finance for a small company, but they use an accounting software so most of it’s all done in the background.

I’m on the first model of the level 2 online course and I just cannot retain the information or make it sink in.

The double entry part and transactions just isn’t making sense and I’m about to lose all hope on it.

If anyone has any resources that helped them such as YouTube videos, links or books then please please do share them.

I’m off to WH Smith later to look at the books they have, in hopes to find one that may help. Along with A3 paper that I plan to right notes on and stick all over the house.

If any bookkeepers would be willing to inbox me and help me with this I’d be super grateful.

I’ve wasted 8 months on this so far and just feel incredibly stupid. And I want this so badly for my current career, it would help me progress so much.

Apologies for putting it in AIBU I was hoping more people would see it and maybe be able to help. Please be kind as I already feel crap enough.

Another vote for Frank Woods' manuals - it's been many years since I last used them but they got me through my exams.

[quote Merryoldgoat]@123ZYX

In my first wholly accounting role I had zero quals. I was a bit shocked to get hired but my very excellent manager (ACA from big firm) told me months later that I had performed way better in the test than all the other candidates, several fully exam qualified. Because I’d worked ‘on the ground’ for a while my technical skills were just stronger.

I always consider QBE and test at interview. I’ve had fully qual applicants who can’t reconcile a bank account.[/quote]
Absolutely. I'm really pleased to see the increase apprenticeships as an entry point to the career. The only real way to learn accountancy is to do it (over, and over, and over...)

@123ZYX

We are likely to have a junior accountant vacancy in about a year and I think I’ll go down the apprenticeship route.

Our auditors (big but not Big Four) have a big school leaver intake to do AAT and then ACA - they are the best auditors I’ve come across. All dedicated, lots of practical experience and very bright.

If any young person came asking about accountancy as a career I’d recommend bypassing university for a course like that. No fees and qualified sooner.

@SunflowerRose if you're in WHS they should have Bookkeeping for Dummies.

I found this useful when I did the same course (useless very boring tutor who answered questions from the viewpoint of 'you should know what I mean'

I am a retired accountant and now I teach accounting. When my students are struggling I tell them to always write DEADCLIC at the top of the page as that is the best acronym I’ve found for knowing what goes where.

After that when you are starting out, don’t try to think in ‘accounting’. Put what is happening into ‘normal’ language, and kind of talk around what is happening.

So using your buying goods for sale and paying a supplier. Firstly you are buying goods which is an expense for the business and you are creating a payable to a supplier. DEADCLIC tells us that Debits increase EXPENSES, assets and drawings so you know that you are going to debit the expense account for the purchase of goods. DEADCLIC also says that credits increase LIABILITIES, income and capital. The payable to a supplier is a liability so you need to credit it.

When you pay the supplier, you are paying money out of the bank, so reducing your asset and reducing your payable liability. DEADCLIC says that debits INCREASE ASSETS but you are reducing it, so you need to do the opposite and credit the bank asset. Credits INCREASE LIABILITIES but again, you are reducing the payable liability so you need to do the opposite and debit the payable.

When it comes to the bank, the bank statement is from the banks perspective, so when you see a credit on your statement as money in, it is because to the bank, it is a liability that they owe you. A debit on your statement is money out because the bank is reducing their liability to you.

Feel free to PM me if you want any specific help.

My colleague taught me to think of debits with your left arm waving in and credits with your right arm waving out.

No idea but it always helped me.

Also looking at how things relate to the P&L/balance sheet.

I haven’t caught up on all the posts yet but will read through them all after I’ve eaten lunch.
We went to WH Smith and they didn’t have a single accounting or bookkeeping book in stock.
So I’ve come home with A4 plain paper, felt tip pens and blue tack. It’s a start and still means I can get notes around the house on hopes if I see it whatever I’m doing I’ll hopefully get it right?

I’m answer regarding the company I work for, as it’s such a small company the FD does all the major accounting stuff and makes sure the company runs as it should. We did have a full time bookkeeper who retired and my current role at the time wasn’t take my full time hours so the FD taught me the parts she could hand over.

I love my job because it’s not just admin and finance that I do. I do so many different things as part of my role so I never get bored.

But this means if I can become qualified I
Could take even more off the FD which would mean a pay rise and more responsibility.

I’d also love to have the possibility to set up my own self employed company on the side for vat returns and things that people would rather pay someone else to do. I’m not saying it’s as simple as that, but it’s an idea.

Of all the processes I do every day at work, not all financial, I do around 20-25 every day or week. And I remember all the steps even the really complicated ones. So if I can get my head around this and it sinks in I’ll do well. It’s just getting to that stage before my course runs out.

I have until November to complete the whole of level 2 and then level 3 starts! My tutor has offered me a 3 month extension but that’s still a really short amount of time to cram in and learn the whole of level 2 ☹️

Genuinely OP - drop me a DM if you’d like someone to go through some sample questions - I think that knowing the approach to take is half the battle.

All the acronyms etc can be helpful but understanding how all of the transactions affect the accounts is the key.

It’s what will enable you to visualise what the effect should be and pick out anomalies by sight.

I can look at my draft management accounts and see immediately where I need to spend some extra time or look into something that looks off.

That comes with time and experience and a solid foundation will get you there.

@Bakingdiva do you offer your teaching to anyone or just through courses? Thanks

is it that double entry is hard?

or that the P&L and balance sheet split is hard?

so its logical to think that buying something credits cash and then Debits the expense. But some expenses go to P&L and some are assets on balance sheet so SEEM to be the other way round.

Mostly it goes to the P&L if short term expense (rent for a month) and Balance sheet if a long term expense (buying a building)

so i think you need to work debits and credits into TB's and Bal sheet/P&L all at same time to understand.

there are only 10 or so main types of things that can happen though

pay expense/make a sale/buy stock/sell stock. Buy an asset (then depreciate it). then you have it when you don't pay or get the cash immediately and it becomes a debtor or creditor. and when you do things in advance or areares of the benefit (ie pay a years rent upfront and have to split the expense into correct periods)

So you can keep practising the main types of transaction.

[quote Welshflowerpower]@Bakingdiva do you offer your teaching to anyone or just through courses? Thanks[/quote]
@Welshflowerpower I mostly teach courses but I do some 1-2-1 tutoring at times too

When I learned it, we were taught to concentrate more on debits on the left, credits on the right, but that was back in the 80's when balance sheets were landscape orientated, i.e. assets on the left, liabilities on the right. Even modern columnar P&L is similar, i.e. usually with sales as first line, but on the right, with expenses etc inset to the left (although there is now a trend for everything in single column). If you're struggling, it may be good to try going back to the "old" fashioned way of left and right rather than the more modern way of columns.

(There is also the wonderful old story of people saying they were taught "debits on the window" side which only works if you're desk is positioned the right way! Whether true or not, it's another way of remembering which side debits and credits are on. A modern alternative may be to have a big Debit sign on the left of your desk and a big Credit sign on the right).

You need to find whatever works for you. It's just a short term "crutch" whilst you're learning and you'll soon find you don't need it.

@user1497207191 I remember people talking about debits on the window side but never understood that!

[quote ineedaholidaynow]@user1497207191 I remember people talking about debits on the window side but never understood that![/quote]
I think it comes from the old days where big firms had a room full of ledger clerks, all sat at desks facing the same way (old fashioned classroom style). There seems to be a reason why they were usually sat with the window to the left, perhaps it was just custom, or maybe because that favours the right handed majority (so the hand is away from the window thus no shadows to make reading the ledger harder?). I went to an old fashioned school in the 70s and all their classrooms were configured so you were sat in rows with the window to the left in the same way!

@user1497207191 just thinking back to my school the classrooms were configured like that too!

@SunFlowerRose how are you getting on? I was searching for help myself and came across this thread. I’ve found the advice on here useful but I’m still struggling.

Hi Dixie. Unfortunately I just can’t get my head around any of it. I’ve had to cancel my online course and lose out of lots of money. Plus I now need to pay quite a large cancellation fee.

I have applied to my local college for the same course which is help 2 evenings per week. I may have missed the boat for September this year but if that’s the cause I’ll apply for next year.

I think I need physical classes with other students so that I can ask questions and have physical help from a tutor.

I really appreciate all of your help I just cannot seem to learn online. It’s like o have a mental block with it.

I’m also suffering with my health more at the moment which is probably contributing to the struggles.

Sorry so many spelling mistakes and wrong words in that. My brain is fried currently.

What a shame. There is no replacement for face to face teaching though so I'm sure you'll fly through with some tuition.

The way I was taught is that AED (always eat doughnuts - assets, expenses, debtors/drawings) are all debits, and LIC (liabilities, income, creditors/capital - like ice cream)

This really helps you work out which way round things go. Along with the bank being the wrong way. Money in the bank is an asset - so a debit balance is a positive bank balance.

It took a while for debits and credits to click with me too but I'm now halfway through CIMA, forget all about how YOU see bank debits/credits in real life and think about them from the point of view of the bank.
And like a previous posted added - DEADCLIC (I still use it now!)
Good luck, when the penny drops it really does all male sense!

I am an AATQB and one of the best books I ever came across was Bookkeeping & Accounts by Frank Woods. (second hand on Amazon)

Also look at David Cox's books - they make it all soooo easy to understand.

I find DEAD / CLIC helps hugely. Remembering that acronym makes it easy to figure out the journal that's needed for your T account.

(I'm an ACA)

And remember - you DRive on the left and CRash on the right!

That’s a shame SunFlowerRose. I imagine class room based would be easier. I’m spending way more time than I imagined on it.

Can anyone tell me how Long it took for it to click?

Hi, I’m also a chartered accountant & completely understand your confusion - it’s hard! Well done for even trying. Basically, debits are expenses or assets , and credits are income or liabilities - it helps to keep that in your head.
So, in your example, it would be :
Dr stock/other assets
Cr creditors (the credit company)

Then, when you pay it:
Dr creditors to cancel out the amount you owed
Cr bank account