Male attitude to house & garden work

[Ritascornershop]

Okay, it may not just be male, but in my life it is.

Currently living with just my university aged son. He does do things when I ask, but always in a voice of extreme sadness. “Could you mow the lawn later?” “Ohhhhh, okay” (sounds as if I’ve asked him to walk 20 k in a snowstorm to get me a slice of cheese, or some such unreasonable task). And then I have to remind him at least half a dozen times till whatever task gets done.

He’s not working for a few weeks yet, just lazing about now classes are done. I do all the laundry, the shopping, pay the bills, Hoover, do more of the cooking than he does.

I have found most men are not very proactive and it can feel like using The Voice of Eeyore can feel like a tactic for the woman to think “oh fuck it, I’ll just do it myself”.

He, on the other hand, has muttered that at least he’s doing it.

Is wanting a little “definitely! I’ll do that right now!” versus sadness, multiple requests, responses of “after my second cup of coffee, after I play this video game for hours, after I go swimming, after my nap” kind of thing, is wanting a ready to help voice unreasonable? And does anyone get it from males of any age?

His grandad is incredibly pro-active and I wonder sometimes if this has died out with the under 70’s?

@MiddleParking

Is wanting a little “definitely! I’ll do that right now!” versus sadness, multiple requests, responses of “after my second cup of coffee, after I play this video game for hours, after I go swimming, after my nap” kind of thing, is wanting a ready to help voice unreasonable?

I think it is. I fucking hate doing my own housework and give myself the misery voice and procrastinate til after a drink/nap/programme whatever. As he says, at least he does it.

As I sit here drinking coffee, watching Dalziel and Pascoe from last night and trawling MN, my grass is half cut, I started it yeasterday but there's a lot, there's washing that needs hanging out and I've just washed up from last evening's meal! Procrastination isn't just a make thing, I was far better when I worked full time but there again I was 20 years younger!

Stop doing his washing you weirdo

Yes, because mothers are wholly responsible for their sons' motivation/training as well as every other bloody thing. SIGH.

it's the mother who is posting here, so you'd think it makes sense for the replies to be addressed to her?

It makes 0 difference if it's the mother or father, and it makes 0 difference if it's the son or daughter either.

The answers would be exactly the same in any case. The difference is that the martyr couldn't put the blame on "the patriarchy" if it was a daughter in her dad's house.

Yes, it's the PARENT who is to blame when they complain about a behaviour they actively encourage. And it's frankly insulting and sexist to pretend that a girl would proactively become the maid of the house because she happens to have a vagina.

@Ritascornershop

I do actually do things that need doing when I realise they need doing (& I’m physically able). That way they are not hanging over my head. And if someone asks me - yes I do fake enthusiasm as I think it’s rude to act put-upon when someone asks you for help.

As for him being my son - I am struggling against both the socialization of the patriarchy and his dad (we’re divorced) who is incredibly lazy and entitled. That my son helps at all (eventually) when asked versus kicking off about it is a massive credit to me (& also his kind nature).

It’s the mental load thing that women have to carry, plus (as I said above) I find it rude to act all suffering when asked to do low-time-commitment tasks.

Oh come on you’re being ridiculous. I am a huge believer in the patriarchy being the root of a lot of shitty things men do but is your bar really that low that you think him grudgingly doing housework is a “huge credit”?

I also don’t think this is a male/female issue as much as it’s a tidy/untidy issue. I’m female, I’m single and live alone and I moan to myself about doing my own housework! I often leave my washing up and hoovering for 2/3 days.

In the past, I had a relationship with a man who was in many respects incredibly misogynist - didn’t like me seeing male friends, wanted to police what I wore, etc. However, he was big into having a clean and tidy house. I’m not. I’m a slob. I do things when I can be arsed. When we lived together he did the lion’s share of the cleaning and laundry because I couldn’t be arsed and I told him as much. It was more important to him than it was to me. How does that fit into your socialisation model?

@kindaclassy

It's also pretty insulting to pretend all girls jump for joy when asked to do household chores

I have an adult sister and a brother. Guess who helps with the housework despite both moving out? Guess who does f all despite still living there? oh not f all. creates more mess i Guess it is men. My dad will call us up desperate for help with the house, garden, younger siblings. We will help but when we say why don't you ask DBRO he says it always causes arguments.

I guess I must have missed that bit of female socialisation then because I don’t feel compelled to help anyone with their chores and I don’t care about a bit of mess

Could you give him more control over when he does it?

Like maybe say the day before 'can u cut the grass for me tomorrow please?' Or divvy up the chores at the beginning of the week?

My dh is very proactive. I came in yesterday and he was mowing the lawn. He does noticed things which my ex never did. He'll see that there is washing up to be done, or the house needs a Hoover and just does it. It helps that we both have around the same standard if cleanliness, neither of us are clean freaks, but equally we both like a tidy and clean house (as much as you can have with dc and dogs).

I do all the laundry, but he does most of the cooking and we both wash up.

I guess with regards to your son, the grass being long doesn't bother him. But maybe having no clean clothes would. Can you give him particular jobs such as sorting his the washing and ironing. You both cook every other day and the other person washes up. The things that if they don't get done directly affects him.

My dd will be 14 soon and I've told her that when she's 14, she does her own ironing. She hates her clothes not ironed so I'm hoping this will encourage her to do it

No one is saying men aren’t capable, what some of us are saying is that they are (as a group) more tolerant of mess, more likely to feel okay about someone else making the house easier to live in.

And? If person A is happy to live in mess and person B isn't then person B either accepts it and does more cleaning, or doesn't live with person A.

I've no idea why , when it comes to house work, it's seen as acceptable to demand someone changes the way they live to suit you.

It's like expecting someone to cook every meal from scratch, iron their underwear or take a keen interest in the garden just because you do.

No one is saying men aren’t capable, what some of us are saying is that they are (as a group) more tolerant of mess, more likely to feel okay about someone else making the house easier to live in.

But a constantly neat house isn’t easier to live in. It’s a pain in the arse to live in.

@Tupperbear’s right. Why should the less obsessively tidy person have to change rather than the more tidy one? I don’t want to have to think about whether all the wine glasses are to the left of all the tall glasses in the cupboard. I don’t want a sofa so white that I’m scared to have my pasta on a tray in front of the telly. I can’t see the point in cleaning the whole house from top to bottom because the cleaning lady is coming this afternoon.

I’m not saying any of this is wrong - just that that’s not how I want to live my life.

On the other hand, I do think it’s a good idea to put ingredients away as you use them so that the entire contents of the bloody larder isn’t chaotically strewn around the kitchen when you’re trying to find space to serve the meal.

And it’s this kind of dissonance that makes a marriage, I think.

@kindaclassy

Yes, because mothers are wholly responsible for their sons' motivation/training as well as every other bloody thing. SIGH.

it's the mother who is posting here, so you'd think it makes sense for the replies to be addressed to her?

It makes 0 difference if it's the mother or father, and it makes 0 difference if it's the son or daughter either.

The answers would be exactly the same in any case. The difference is that the martyr couldn't put the blame on "the patriarchy" if it was a daughter in her dad's house.

Yes, it's the PARENT who is to blame when they complain about a behaviour they actively encourage. And it's frankly insulting and sexist to pretend that a girl would proactively become the maid of the house because she happens to have a vagina.

Because I did that last thing? Wait, no I didn't. And the rest of your post is disingenuous and naive.

toconclude

I suppose it's always easier to blame someone else than take responsibility for your own actions.

Mine started doing his own washing of his own volition when he was about 15. Shortly after that he began cooking for himself because mine was “boring” - hurrah! As a result I made him clear up after himself and the kitchen was always immaculate. I never asked any more than that.

Now he lives alone, he apparently needs a couple of days notice of visits to bring the house up to “woman standards” so I have no idea what it usually looks like.

Nope - nope nope nope.
DH is absolutely nothing like you describe. You're, quite frankly, just sexist and trying to blame society because you didn't raise your son properly.
I've never had a man try to avoid housework by pretending to be sad about it!? I've never met a woman who joyfully sprung up to do housework?! This isn't a gender problem - it's a you problem.

@TedMullins

I guess I must have missed that bit of female socialisation then because I don’t feel compelled to help anyone with their chores and I don’t care about a bit of mess

I missed it too. I don't do any more than the minimum necessary housework, DH does almost all laundry, cooking and grocery shopping and we outsource cleaning and major garden maintenance.

And if someone asks me - yes I do fake enthusiasm as I think it’s rude to act put-upon when someone asks you for help.

That's what struck me as odd in your post, OP. I think you're getting it wrong if you think your son doing household chores for a household in which he lives constitutes 'helping you'. Either way, I honestly think that you're imposing your own slightly skewed view on him in expecting him to copy your pretense of enthusiasm about household chores.

You say, I think, somewhere that his father, from whom you're divorced, is a sexist pig who never did his fair share of chores are you sure you're not falling into 'marital' roles with your son? I mean, I wouldn't expect anyone to look enthusiastic about the boring grind involved in cleaning the bathroom or my least favourite chore -- putting away groceries.

@DolphinFC

Most women I know can't park.

At work yesterday there 3 cars lined taking up 4 spaces. Who parked them...women!

Sorry... just make a stupid generalisation based on 1 observation.

We, OH and I often had to change places so I could park, especially reversing into a parallel parking space.

I disagree with the most women can’t park statement quite vehemently.
I will also point out that NO cars or car seats or seatbelts are actually designed with a woman’s body or size in mind. They are designed for the MAXIMUM body shape and size, which makes it bloody difficult for most women to actually see the edges of their vehicle. We just have to instinctively guesstimate where they are. People like me 5ft, 7.5 stones don’t factor at all into the “average adult” equation. Seats with adjustable lumbar support push under my shoulder blades, the highest part of the car seat is under my knees, making my legs even shorter and necessitating me bringing the seat right up under the steering wheel, meaning that if I am involved in a head-on accident, I will most likely be killed or injured by the steering column, be badly disfigured by the airbags going off in my face or have my neck broken by the seatbelt that sits across my neck due to my height and stature.
Despite this, every time I am at the supermarket and some bastard has parked their car so close that I have to climb over my groceries and get in via the back, it’s inevitably a man - because he’s far too busy and important to give a shit about how his parking has impacted the person on the other side and he has fucked off to get his very important coffee.

Who, male or female, in their right mind will jump up and pro actively do chores?!

"....every time I am at the supermarket and some bastard has parked their car so close that I have to climb over my groceries and get in via the back, it’s inevitably a man - because he’s far too busy and important to give a shit about how his parking has impacted the person on the other side and he has fucked off to get his very important coffee...."

If the driver has fucked off, how do you know it's a man?

Sorry - I meant to write that inevitably it’s a man who comes trotting back with their very important coffee while you’re clambering into your own car.

Yes, because mothers are wholly responsible for their sons' motivation/training as well as every other bloody thing. SIGH.
One of mine does housework without even being asked, the other doesn't. Perhaps I didn't bring both of them up?

Quite so.

There are a lot of the keyboard warriers out today OP. You'll get the blame for every last little thing. I won't say what my 20 year old son won't do as it would create such a furore, but it isn't through lack of bloody trying on my behalf.

You have my sympathies.

I know it's not exactly what you asked but it might be worth divvying up the chores as PP said. So make his responsibile for eg mowing the lawn once a week, doing the supermarket shop once a fortnight, cleaning the bathroom each week, taking the buns out each day or whatever. Explain that if if he doesn't do these tasks off his own back (without being nagged) and to a satisfactory standard then you will be expecting him to pay rent like other adults.

A lot of people are completely missing the point of the post about women and parking The entire point being made was that OP is saying she thinks all men behave a certain way because she's observed one man behaving that way - PP then said they think all women can't park because they observed a woman not being able to park well. They're pointing out the idiocy of judging a whole demographic by the actions of one or few individuals.