AIBU to hope that school bubble isolation soon stop and to ask what you think is a viable alternative.

[Moelwynbach]

I'be been listening to radio 4 today and also read a Guardian article advising 1/4 million pupils missed school last week due the required 10 day isolation period.

The Minister for Education is calling for an end to the regulation stating that September is too long to wait. MPs have called for immediate change on 19th July.

My own thoughts are:

• School bubble shut downs disproportionately affect women as the main care giver. Affecting long term career options.
• Infection rates in poorer areas are higher, children in these areas are already at a disadvantage educationally.
• The time away from school is widening an already significant socio-economic divide. *Children from less well of families have less opportunities to access technology and internet.
• Parents cannot teach as well as a teacher. It is a skilled job.
• Many parents who have zero hours contracts will repeatedly have their child sent home and cannot earn money.
• Many parents like me cannot teach and work from home at the same time.....My kid just doesn't work that way he is 5.
• What happens after all the annual leave is used? I'm the main earner and can't afford to take unpaid leave.

To this end I agree that something needs to change it is not sustainable for children or carers. At some point we need to accept that this is part of lives. I'm not saying we need to all run out and carry on as normal but how we do sustain this unpredictably? What would be the best scenario for you? Mine would be for no requirement to self isolate unless you are the infected child.

I'm trying to form my thoughts and so many things whizzing through my head.

I would offer 12+ the vaccine over summer holidays. Some won't want it or be able to have it, but many would.

I would stop wasting money on ineffective things like track and trace and LFTs. Instead I would ask teachers what they need money spent on. I'm not a teacher so I have no idea. Supply teachers, better ventilation...?

Get rid of LFT s because they aren't reliable and whilst my DC's school won't tell tell us, I strongly suspect very few are doing them regularly and correctly at home. Instead, have PCR tests routinely at school, given out by people hired for that purpose and done by the DC themselves.

Then let the DC stay in school unless they test positive. My DS year 9 is taking chemistry this year and has not done a single experiment all year. He's not even seen one demonstrated by his teacher because their lesson takes place in a Spanish classroom. My dd year 7 has not done one practical lesson in any subject. No cooking, no science experiments, no actual moving around in pe until summer term, no camp, no socialising with anyone outside her little bubble. It's all just too much. Plus she missed out on all the fun year 6 activities last year. I feel now that I want DC in school and back to normal above almost anything else.

Op bubbles and it seems most thing's ate stopping.

Come September it's fingers in ears, heads in sand, we won't be told infected numbers any more, and schools will be told to simply treat it like flu.

So don't worry about bubbles or any of it because, in a few months it will magically dissappear..

Well bloody hell @Awalkintime that update changes things a bit doesn’t it 🙄

Yes one child aged under six in hospital on 2 June across England . Max 4 on any one day since April.
It will be interesting to see those figures in a month.

@UpSlyDown

Well bloody hell *@Awalkintime* that update changes things a bit doesn’t it 🙄

Why does it? It was only what was stated in the first place.

As sad as it is for that child it’s very different a child with complex health issues who is regularly ventilated being extremely unwell to an otherwise healthy young child being incredibly unwell due to covid. It’s slightly misleading and makes your initial post seem more dramatic.

Well we know the public don't think their lives matter and that vulnerable kids (and adults) in all of this have been told their life has no value and clearly you think the vulnerable don't matter. Why is it dramatic for a normal child but not for a vulnerable one? It is a 4 year old child at the end of the day. There are countless vulnerable children in schools and the fact that their lives are being ignored and that people want to go back to normal with nothing in place to help them and ignore the fact that this puts their lives at risk is awful.

It doesn't make it seem more dramatic, they are kids, they are not a subspecies of children just because they are vulnerable. It is a 4 year old who might die because they were made to go into an unsafe environment with no measures.

It is pretty disgusting that people will ignore the risk to these kids all because they want to get back to watching little Jonny running with an egg and a spoon and that is more important than a child's life. There needs to be some measures in place, if you remove some measures, others need to be in place instead.

@0None0

I don’t think it was statistically unlikely at all. Not to anyone who understands statistics

Understanding something is one thing, actually thinking about the results is something else entirely. The particular post in question was full of completely ludicrous claims, and then for them all to align so neatly...

Get a grip, she was talking shite

Awalkintime

The challenge with the child to whom you refer is that it's very difficult to be sure it's even Covid causing their respiratory issues.

My daughter was ventilated last winter, also had a few days on CPAP later the same winter. She had a virus that is commonly circulating in children but tends to only make those are more vulnerable extremely ill - RSV. However she also had another common infection at the same time which won't have helped.

That child may have a range of issues, covid may be a factor, but we can't be sure. It's one child, out of millions, and it's likely that if it wasnt covid making them poorly, it would be something else. I'm very sorry for anyone in that position, but it's not enough to impose all this on the other children, just as I can't expect the country to be shut down to block the spread of RSV (a disease we don't even have a widely available vaccine for) just because it nearly killed MY child.

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

They've been stable all year and now have covid and are not but yeah that might be the case. However, what is being relayed to us is different.

The fact is covid impacts on many children and there are many children in school who are vulnerable. We have 5 in ours. That is not just one out of a million, there are many many vulnerable children in many schools who are being ignored and who are being told their lives do not matter for the sake of something such as putting regular testing in place which they do for everyone else.

Similarly the schools will just shut anyway if it is just all back to normal and treated as other illnesses as there is no money for supply. Can't pull teaching staff out of an arsehole. Funny people put their head in the sand and called teachers names when they pushed for a full funded education system for your children. Now the cracks are showing people can't find the cause still.

We need money to manage this situation - suitable ventilation systems in school, regular testing, daily testing for those in contact. Suitable and reasonable measures but sitting face to face with covid + children for 6 hours is really going to end in so many more issues.

Our local maternity centre has closed as they have no staff due to covid. Let it run its course but then don't expect there to be the staff available to do the job if so.

All of the talk seems to be about approaches that would apply to secondary schools. The media doesn't seem to be questioning that and asking what the plan is for primaries.

@Justajot

All of the talk seems to be about approaches that would apply to secondary schools. The media doesn't seem to be questioning that and asking what the plan is for primaries.

Agreed. If you ban masks, don’t vaccinate, won’t test and don’t send home close contacts of positive cases-primary schools may become rather a worry.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

Awalkintime

The challenge with the child to whom you refer is that it's very difficult to be sure it's even Covid causing their respiratory issues.

My daughter was ventilated last winter, also had a few days on CPAP later the same winter. She had a virus that is commonly circulating in children but tends to only make those are more vulnerable extremely ill - RSV. However she also had another common infection at the same time which won't have helped.

That child may have a range of issues, covid may be a factor, but we can't be sure. It's one child, out of millions, and it's likely that if it wasnt covid making them poorly, it would be something else. I'm very sorry for anyone in that position, but it's not enough to impose all this on the other children, just as I can't expect the country to be shut down to block the spread of RSV (a disease we don't even have a widely available vaccine for) just because it nearly killed MY child.

Yes to this @Awalkintime. Not that they don’t matter of course they do. It’s heartbreaking for that child and family but if it’s not uncommon for that child to become that ill it makes it hard to untangle what risk is wrapped up in covid and what is just ‘normal’ high risk for them.

Are cev children not vulnerable to many other diseases and viruses we let run? Like nori, chicken pox, Scarlett fever, slapped cheek, HF&M? My DD has been hospitalised five times due to tonsilittis and they still won't take her tonsils out. I'm not sure why covid can be treated differently if the statistics show it isn't significantly problematic in that age group.

UpSlyDown - but this child is one of many children facing this. There are kids with diabetes, recovering from cancer, kids with immune issues etc. While this is one single child and their story, there are many others at risk.

It is heartbreaking to be told your life is pointless and irrelevant so long as someone else can have fun you need to be sacrificed. It really is horrific to be on the other side of that being constantly told if you die, so what?

So what about all the other diseased that were present at varying levels until 2019?

@Awalkintime

Well we know the public don't think their lives matter and that vulnerable kids (and adults) in all of this have been told their life has no value and clearly you think the vulnerable don't matter. Why is it dramatic for a normal child but not for a vulnerable one? It is a 4 year old child at the end of the day. There are countless vulnerable children in schools and the fact that their lives are being ignored and that people want to go back to normal with nothing in place to help them and ignore the fact that this puts their lives at risk is awful.

It doesn't make it seem more dramatic, they are kids, they are not a subspecies of children just because they are vulnerable. It is a 4 year old who might die because they were made to go into an unsafe environment with no measures.

It is pretty disgusting that people will ignore the risk to these kids all because they want to get back to watching little Jonny running with an egg and a spoon and that is more important than a child's life. There needs to be some measures in place, if you remove some measures, others need to be in place instead.

Well said @Awalkintime

It is heartbreaking to be told your life is pointless and irrelevant so long as someone else can have fun you need to be sacrificed. It really is horrific to be on the other side of that being constantly told if you die, so what?

That is not what is happening and you are just being disingenuous. I bet you didn't feel this way about vulnerable children before Covid did you, when norovirus, flu, chicken pox and even just common cold would run rife through schools?

I get it, I have 2 CEV children in my class. I don't know what is going to happen for them in the next few months as everything starts to get back to normal. But it's pretty unfair to say that because the world wants to go back to some semblance of normality (and Covid is here to stay now) that they don't care at all about CEV people.

Plus I still don't believe your initial post on this thread and think that at the very least, it's heavily embellished. Because as I said, if what was happening in your school was happening in other schools, the national data would be telling a different story right now.

It isn't about wanting to getting back to normal that suggests it, it is what people are saying. People have said this all along for the past 16 months that CEV people are worthless. It is happening as I have felt it all over facebook as a CEV person myself being told it doesn't matter it is only the CEV that die. Yeah 'it doesn't matter'. They do not matter.

You can keep saying you don't believe it and again I said that is your right to disbelieve. I know the truth, I shared the truth. I never said it was happening nationally and it has always been pointed out that there are areas that have had very few infections and it has cause significantly less impact. There have been areas where the infections are huge and it has been more of an impact. That has been shared for 16 months about variations in areas, this is not a new thing.

You can't tell people how they can and can't feel. I feel worthless and that has been the impact on me being told for 16 months I do not matter. It is also reiterated by many. This article about it was interesting this week.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/24/covid-vulnerable-life-death-toll-old-disabled?fbclid=IwAR0lwEPKqllS5WjnLlrkhZBWdATziA1vBmRRCky-FZi4l0yVtKnTN548K54

I hope there is now more support for teachers to receive any vaccine booster as a priority in the autumn. I think we can ignore the ‘schools are safe’ nonsense as it is clear how easily Covid spreads in schools and teachers should be considered essential workers in the same way as NHS and care workers. As a teacher, I’m willing to take a risk now but will expect better treatment than we received in January to April this year.

@Awalkintime

We need money to manage this situation - suitable ventilation systems in school, regular testing, daily testing for those in contact. Suitable and reasonable measures but sitting face to face with covid + children for 6 hours is really going to end in so many more issues.

Could you explain how this would work in primary schools? A highly infectious aerosol is not going to be defeated by a cheap retro-fit ventilation system. LFD are still not approved for use in primary children and subjecting them to daily testing is unlikely to be complied with (by children or parents). Social distancing (each child having a small square to play in or learning in school on a rota system) is emotionally and educationally damaging, to say nothing of the impact on the economy if parents have to be at home every other week.

We currently have a CEV child who was previously shielding Covid+ve, she has a cough but is otherwise well. She had a temperature for two days. The virus may be more dangerous to those who are CEV, but it is not an automatic death sentence.

I don’t know what the answer is but mass isolation in children long term is not sustainable for their education or for parents having to continually take time off work, employers are only understanding to a point and some can’t afford to keep taking unpaid leave.

To those saying that teachers have all been vaccinated...

I'm 46 and am having my 2nd jab today.

Some of my younger colleagues aren't having their 2nd jabs until the very end of August, meaning they won't be fully protected when the children return. (I've been told it takes 2 weeks after the 2nd jab?)

We should have been prioritised, like NHS staff were.