To make my child wait to be sure she wants these things

[Weirdmom]

So my daughter is 11 and has told me she's non binary.. Over the last month she's decided she wants to change her name, pro nouns and bind her chest...
One of her friends decided the same thing a few months before and I'm unsure if this is something to fit in or a phase etc?

I know I'm gonna get alot of hate for this but I'm finding it very overwhelming all of a sudden and I don't want her to rush into descions that could affect her later in life if this turns out to be a phase etc

she has undiagnosed adhd and odd and sometimes does act alot younger than her peers and can be very impulsive. I'm trying to support her the best I can but I'm at a loss at what to do if anyone has any advice or experience please.

My thoughts on this particular social contagion is "do no harm" in the ethos of Hippocrates.

Pronouns, names, clothes...fine they're an expression of identity. Interchangeable, flexible and ultimately unlikely to cause any physical long term effects.

Binding, hormones, surgery...absolutely not. All three have irreversible physical consequences. Some that may be welcomed as an adult but quite possibly not, the Jamie Bell case shone a much needed light on the need for us to protect our children from irreversible physical harm as a result of something that may or may not be long rooted.

If breasts are an issue for your child then as others have suggested good sports bras or minimiser bras can give a similar effect to binding without any of the dangerous side effects.

Conversations with our daughter have centred on this. I won't ever support her doing anything that could be physically permanent. She needs to mature first and part of that is going through puberty because the hormones do a lot more than just making boobs poke out and starting periods. She now accepts this and is fully exploring who she is within the safe confines of the support we give her (still currently her although with much less hair and no feminine clothes...a bit like her mother but apparently "it's different").

I don't think you can get her to ignore or dismiss it, especially when it's everywhere around her, and it would feel belittling to call it "silliness", even if it is. But I would try to explain that while her feelings are very real and valid, she is very young and hasn't even got her adult body yet, and she still has so much self discovery left to do, that it would be irresponsible to do anything that could cut off options for her later.

Maybe suggest a shopping trip for clothes or haircuts that she feels best express her.

I agree with the PP who said it's a fashion now. I know so many teen girls saying they are non-binary. Often they have been through the 'I'm vegan' phase shortly before.

Perhaps some will always feel this way, but I think the vast majority are declaring their non-binary status as a means to an end, be that a declaration of their unhappiness, their desire for attention, or their desire to be cool.

I feel desperately sorry for our young who have so much more to worry and think about than we did. I was a huge tomboy and would have LEAPT at the chance to declare myself non-binary, had I known it was a thing. Luckily it wasn't.

Good luck OP, I know a few mums going through the exact same thing with their teen DDs and they are suffering, too.

I’d ask why she feels she is non binary. There can be a variety of reasons for young girls which can be related to trying to identify out of the physical and social situation in which they find themselves. I’d also ask why she feels she can’t be non binary with her existing name? For example she is stereotyping if she thinks a non binary person can’t be called Sarah or Louise etc.

I was a huge tomboy and would have LEAPT at the chance to declare myself non-binary, had I known it was a thing
Me too. Still am. Couldn’t give a shit what pronouns people use to describe me because my identity is not tied up in them. I largely don’t give a shit what surname people use either - my maiden name, first or second husband, I don’t bother correcting people. Honestly I don’t know why people get so het up about this stuff.

I know exactly where you are coming from OP. My daughter was almost 13 when she told me she was trans during the first lockdown. I've had endless discussions about what it means to be male and what it means to be female (actually a very difficult question to answer).

I can totally empathise with your feelings of confusion. I have slowly made my peace with it and although I'm pretty sure it's a stage have switched to her new name and avoid pronouns. I have said absolutely no to boob binding or hormones.

Apparently all her peers at school are "something" other than straight.

Awe

I feel for you OP. Some people have suggested Binding is dangerous? But after only having a very quick google. I can’t find many pages on it? Wondered if anyone can show me some uk links?

I’d happily use whatever names or pronouns they like. I do feel 11 is so young. But I must admit I don’t know much about it. Neither of my children have ever expressed anything else than their own gender.

Sending you lots of hugs though. I can imagine how difficult this must be

Take is seriously and support her with pronounds and anything this isn't permanent. Offer her counselling if it's doable for you. Obviously at 11 nothing permanent is going to be happening for quite some time (and it may well be never will at all). Just be there for her, talk to her, try and be open minded. You're naturally going to be worried but try and put that to one side and support her from a neutral position (then voice your worries to a friend or online).

Along with the suggestions of sports bras, I'm going to add in dancers tops like this one or another which can give more support if she needs it but look less like a bra might be useful. Both my DDs went through a time around 11 where they wanted sports bras because other girls they knew were wearing bras but they didn't actually want 'adult' bras, if that make sense? They still wanted something that looked like a crop top, and in fact one went back to just crop tops to have that look of having a bra for PE while not wearing one.

I think for some girls there is a push around this age to do 'woman' or they start to become more aware of social expectations on women that they really don't feel comfortable with that and may act this out by trying to hide physical changes, choosing particular clothes, and more recently, it's become more common to do that by some with identity.

I try to discuss with mine that puberty as a time their brains are trying to find a space through checking themselves against others some find those earlier than others with the continuous changes, we can't really predict at the start how we're going to look or feel about ourselves at the end. I'm there as a talking space, but also as a space that's there to temper their natural impulse to rush. I keep a 'it's possible, we'll see how it goes, is there something about this you'd like to talk about?" approach.

@Bibabbles

Very measured.

It's interesting it seems to be so many girls rather than boys who want to trans or go binary.

I can understand why there's social pressure and for a few it will be attention seeking or being part of a peer group.

And for a lot it will be gender pressure from parents or society - so the usual pink/no sports/no STEM for girls, boys do what they want. Then the very early pick up on social media with aggressive sex.

And the fact trans women can take your place at sport.

Who would want to be female?

@maxineputyourredshoeson

Is your 11 year old really experiencing any kind of sexual attraction yet? Most, at that age, are pre-sexual. Which means they are not ready to make any kind of decision about who they are sexually attracted to.

I wouldn't tell her she isn't gay, but I would strongly encourage her to keep an open mind, because things can change a LOT as she goes through teenage years.

@bridgetreilly obviously I don’t want to say to much on a public forum. But yes, she has experienced attraction to females. We are very much aware that hormones etc are flying around at her age and crushes on people are totally normal. We’ve explained all of this to her hence saying she doesn’t have to label herself but we accept her for who she is and our love and support will never stop. We have noticed her confidence is growing, she was a very shy and quiet child who was always happy to disappear into the background but that is all changing since she spoke with us, so much so that the school has even spoken to us about it.

Bridgetreilly, I think I was 5 years old when I first fancied someone on tv, most people know what they are attracted to at 11

I don't think that's quite correct
There is a huge variation in age of awareness and a correlation with puberty probably also

@3scape, "treat it as a phase" doesn't mean you say to the kid "ah this is just a phase, I'm not listening to any of this mince" - just means you weather it like every other phase they went through. A kid this age is playing with their identity, trying stuff out, and as a parent all you really want to do is allow them a ladder to climb back down if it turns out that it's not going to be a permanent part of their identity. So not telling them it's a load of rubbish, but also not doing anything that makes it harder for them to change their mind, like announcing their new pronouns to your aunties on Facebook or booking them in for a chat with the GP.

@Lilypansy

She's only 11 - too young to be fussing about gender. As someone else said, it's social contagion. Do you think she would have said this if she hadn't been surrounded by a lot of trans/ gender/binary theories? Would she have even considered herself 'non binary' if she hadn't heard the term bandied about? It's getting out of hand.

This.

Adhd and odd often go hand in hand in dc. The Explosive Child is a really good approach to behavioural difficulties as, in a nutshell, it advocates building the skills that the child is lacking, rather than punishing/rewarding behaviour.

Executive function skills are a huge source of difficulty with adhd. I find the ADDitude podcast an absolute goldmine of research and ideas and this one is very good. executive function and school

Self esteem is often a huge problem with add/adhd. In children odd is often the partner, but in adulthood it often goes and in hand with anxiety and depression. Boosting self esteem is just as vital as supporting school work and kids with adhd often excel at activities outside school (I think it’s also really important for girls to have other friends and activities as teen friendship groups can be extremely insular and support social contagions). If she likes reading the Percy Jackson books are very positive about adhd (the main character is a Greek Demi god whose adhd helps him focus in battle and his dyslexia is due to his brain being wired to read Greek instead of English).

At this point I’d be watching and waiting re non binary stuff, and concentrating on the adhd primarily. Maybe have a read up on sexual development as well as dc typically go through phases of being repelled by the secondary sexual characteristics of the opposite sex (that’s why singers in boy bands are always smooth and hairless and very, very un-intimidating as the core audience are tweens and early teen girls).

For ADHD diagnosis, go back to your GP with a list of things showing how your DD's daily living is affected, compared to her peers.

Look at the Teenagers and Children information here, it shows what the GP needs to hear in order to create a referral. www.nhs.uk/conditions/attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder-adhd/diagnosis/

You'll see they want evidence from 2 settings. Have you seen her school SENCO? If not, contact them with your concerns and ask that they observe your DD and let you know what they think. If you can also give your GP a short report or even letter from school expressing concerns, then you will have a much better chance of referral.

My niece is 15 and it would appear that her and her school friends talk about these sorts of issues continually. They also talk a lot about mental health. Although this is good, and we don't want to minimise mental health, at times it can almost be a competition between all the girls (ie who has had the most trauma and who gets therapy etc)!

Like others I would be supportive in going along with the name change and pronouns and getting a minimise bra and some clothes they choose. I've got a lot of understanding of someone who wants to get away from defined gender roles and reinvent themselves and I would tell them that and try to get a good dialogue going about how your dc feels. This really is the easiest of any sort of trans gender identity change to deal with since I feel you can be supportive of it without agreeing with something that could have negative effects like taking hormones and surgery.

www.ahaparenting.com/blog/supporting-children-who-may-be-nonbinary

Might be of use in how to emotionally support/listen to your child.

Also suggest looking into some of the support groups, OP, this can't be easy and you also need to consider your feelings and wellbeing. There is an LGBT kids /parents board here on MN, but I don't know what it's like.

Agree with

Monitor screen usage
Forbid binder, strictly, due to harmful health effects
Go cautiously and slowly - while for most this is likely to be a harmless phase, there is a lot of contagion and peer pressure, and some of it can potentially lead to some dangerous places and people.

WRT gender non-conforming children and how they are treated, here is a 'watchful waiting' approach which seems most sensible and there is 'affirmation only' which seems reckless and potentially damaging.

I'd also be mindful that sometimes children presenting with gender issues can apparently have other co-existing conditions swept aside by presumably well meaning professionals - keep your DDs needs at the forefront and don't lose sight of possible underlying/affecting issues that you've mentioned.

Be supportive I'd say, but also have a discussion about whether she really feels she is of neither sex or if mostly she doesn't like the gender stereotypes of being female, and let her know she can be female however she likes. And if she wants to make a statement about gender stereotyping, it'll be stronger to come from a place of 'I am female but I can be a woman however I like' - opting out of a gender identity can feel like it helps you, and, although one's sexual identity doesn't have to be political, declaring onesself nonbinary doesn't really help challenge gender stereotypes, if those are something one doesn't like.

DD is queer and saying she might be fluid she/her/they, but I have expressed to her my feeling that a lot of non-binary kids at heart want to protest stereotypes through how they identify, but the best way to change things is to own one's sex and live your life how you want, undefined by your body. And she seems to be with me so far....