To just give them some cows milk?!

[OhToBeASeahorse]

Last summer DS (then nearly 2) started to get bad eczema. He also pood very frequently but that has been since birth. By September we trialled going dairy free and the eczema disappeared- nappy situation remained.

In March the eczema started to reappear. Ge had changed childcare but they are adamant he isnt having dairy.

DD is 8 months and breastfed. When she was tiny I thought that she was more unsettled when I had dairy so I cut it out. 2.nights ago I had a few chocolate buttons and she was slightly more unsettled last night (crap sleeper anyway).

Its doing my head in checking every packet of everything, they are both dairy and soya free and I thought egg might be a trigger for her too so i dont have that.

It's all so unclear. I'm starting to wonder if DS's exzema is a sun or heat related thing.

AIBU to just give them both a mug ful of cows milk and see what happens? I'm so exhausted thinking about it all.

@OhToBeASeahorse I remember some of your other threads about your LO. Allergy babies are tough - have you checked the website dilanandme.com and associated Facebook group? So so helpful for CMPA. GP's generally aren't that great, but that fb group has helped me no end

@WavesAndLeaves thanks so much. I've literally done nothing but whine.

Her symptoms have never been that clear. Just unsettled but then she is unsettled at night anyway!!!

I don’t know much about the milk ladder, but one of the dc I look after, his eczema has got 100times worse since the hot weather started and it’s proving near on impossible to get it back under control.

All three of mine went through the milk ladder, one happily eats any dairy, one eats most dairy and the other still prefers non dairy but will tolerate enough to get by in everyday life without too much difficulty. They might struggle with a meal with a creamy sauce followed by ice cream but we are way past the checking every label and they all love mini cheddar biscuits which were the first things they had being far to processed to really be called dairy!

@Maryann1975 it's a bloody nightmare

I suggest if you can afford it go private with a consultant paediatric allergist - we did & he referred us to a specialist dietician as well -it was worth it for getting precise advice
keep a log of what they eat
Have you changed their: shampoo, soap or auto wash powder (they advised me to double rinse & to not use conditioner what about the childcare re soap & hand wash - changes in drinks other than milk ie squash & baked beans makes
If your dc is in child care talk to them about art & craft (paint & food dyes & colouring for play dough etc)
DD use to react in pollen time & to grass
(She reacted to cows milk & badly to soya but not to goat milk -go figure!)
Allergies can develop

@WavesAndLeaves to be fair they do say most allergic children, not all. The truth is a lot of what women are told about breastfeeding by gps has very little, if any, evidence to back it up. And altering a mother’s diet for BF is one of those things.

If the eczema is the primary issue I would try to see a dermatologist to be honest. Whilst dietary allergies certainly can be an issue there are often multiple factors. My sons are both allergic to cows milk protein, and my younger one has multiple food allergies, but their eczema needs additional treatment. You might find there are also environmental triggers, and getting the right creams etc can make a huge difference.
Our GP was pretty useless but the regime we were advised at the dermatology clinic improved things no end.
And though it's been said several times now, and you've obviously taken the advice on board I just want to reinforce the advuce not to go straight to a glass of unmodified milk. Cooked and processed dairy is less easily "recognised" by the immune system so you need to build up gradually to find the limit of your child's tolerance.
But as others have said, you really need to push for professional help. Keep nagging your GP and HV for the appropriate referrals.

@DingleyDel

That summary was interesting reading - what I don't understand is how they are defining non-iGE dairy allergy if not by the symptoms used for guidelines. The summary confidently states several times that about 1% of babies have a dairy allergy, and that this is lower than those who think their child has an allergy - but how is that distinction being made, given I was told there was no definitive "test" for non-iGE allergy except elimination and challenge?

Thank you. I'll try and phone my HV and see where we go from there.

It's such a minefield.

@dingleydel that definitely wasn't our experience either, or what the dietitian seemed to suggest was hers -A much much lower % of breastfed babies have CMPA in general so maybe that is why they react to such small quantities - like I say, it took till over a year to get her to tolerate almost anything in my diet, then another 18 months to get her tot he top of the ladder. @OhToBeASeahorse I'd do the milk ladder yourself, maybe a bit quicker, then start on your DD.

For us, elimination from my diet at 4 months was what got us diagnosed: I accidentally had some milk at 7 months and she had exposure green nappies purely from exposure to my milk. If its not an issue, you'll fly up the ladder - you could maybe plan to do a truncated version for yourself, each step in a day or two, unless there are any symptoms that give you pause. Its just a way to be sure, and gives you a good basis to move forward. Its really poor your GP won't refer to a dietitian, we had a consultant paediatrician, then a dietitian, then a fairly supportive GP and occasional dietitian apps. But the dietitian was more casual about the eczema, and its really hard to pinpoint a cause of it - she definitely has worse eczema in summer, but also occasional hives when exposed to egg (her other allergen)

One other suggestion OP is probiotics: hard to know what helps but we used powder in her porridge and I do think it made a slight difference. Certainly its unlikely to harm.

@Maryann1975

I don’t know much about the milk ladder, but one of the dc I look after, his eczema has got 100times worse since the hot weather started and it’s proving near on impossible to get it back under control.

Same here - have nothing to contribute on dairy allergies but my three year old's eczema is very clearly linked to heat (and perhaps to grass pollen or something like that? As it seems to have a seasonality even when it isn't a hot summer) and it's been really bad this year and so hard to get under control - I've been at the GP weekly.

My daughter was born with an intolerance to dairy. I was breastfeeding and had to cut out all dairy from my diet as she was incredibly windy. She used to break out in hives if I gave her it directly. She's now two and is completely fine with cow's milk, I just gave her a little bit at a time every now and then to see how she reacted. I believe it's common for them to grow out of it.

If you can afford it I’d pay for private allergy bloods.
It’s roughly £120 per child for the top 14 allergens. You can pay extra to include environmental allergens like pollen, cat dander, dust etc.

It’s worth every penny to bypass the dreadful nhs system that’ll take months if not years and countless appointments with gastro, dietician, allergy clinics, ladders etc when the bloods will give you a much clearer picture from the start.

I would def get allergy tests done.

When Ds was 6 months he had an allergic reaction whilst sitting at the table with us at lunch where we had a variety of foods at the table. Doctor said it was probably dairy, maybe gluten… but luckily took blood tests straight away. We were told to avoid all dairy and gluten until results were back.

Turns out he’s highly allergic to nuts, and has no allergy at all to dairy or gluten. Had tests not been done we would have been trying to avoid the wrong things for months and probably given nuts again as things like nut butters perfect if dairy free!

the bloods will give you a much clearer picture from the start
Or they might not. It isn't always that simple.
Blood tests measure specific IgE levels, but not all allergic reactions are IgE mediated. Skin prick tests are the same, and the size of the reaction on testing doesn't always correlate with the severity of the clinical reaction either.
My younger son has a mixture of IgE and non IgE allergies and has been hospitalised by reactions to foods which according to his blood tests he isn't allergic to. Fortunately for us his immunologist is extremely thorough and has helped us identify a number of non IgE mediated reactions which were making him extremely ill.

The sun (and suncream) are very likely to be impacting eczema.
My son has quite bad eczema and I have private allergy testing then went to see a consultant dietician who told me those tests were pointless and don't work.
The only reliable way to know if the cows milk is causing eczema is to cut it out (which you have) and then gradually reintroduce.

I definitely would give them some, using “milk ladder” a good idea. Clear skin a good starting point.

My daughter has had eczema since a baby. She’s 15 now and it flares up really badly with heat. It took a long time to figure out as everyone kept telling me to treat eczema from the inside so we’ve gone years cutting stuff out, keeping food diaries etc but it’s definitely heat/sun.

There seem to be quite polarised views on the whole inside vs outside thing re eczema, even within health care professionals. Personally, I think the fact that different people respond to different approaches suggests that eczema is not actually one entity and that there are many different types of trigger. My own eczema is massively affected by stress. One of my children had a strong dietary connection, another has mainly environmental triggers and the third is somewhere in between. And there is probably a genetic component underlying it all.
There's always going to be an element of trial and error unfortunately, but hopefully you'll get there in the end OP. Hang on in there. I remember the misery but for my children fortunately its eventually gone from being something that our lives used to revolve around to a minor irritation. There is hope!

I just want to share my experience. I have had two kids with allergies/eczema. My husband also has had eczema since he was an infant and still suffers as an adult. He also has food allergies - some he grew out of, some persisted.

Eldest child - had some mildish dry eczema at a few months old. Had a really bad reaction to a cradle cap shampoo which left him with a raw and bleeding scalp. When first introduced to peanut butter at 7 months old came out in hives, vomited, coughed, upset tummy after. GP referred us for allergy testing - the waiting list was over a year (this was pre-pandemic). Weaning is such an important window - introducing a food to a baby and then not repeating that exposure can increase risk of allergy, as can not introducing it early enough. As DC had eaten other things that meal and I wasn't happy to just exclude things from his diet if it may not be necessary/actually increase the risk of an allergy I paid for private testing. Skin prick came up positive for peanut, also got advice on how to manage his eczema at the same apt. So excluded peanut from his diet/our house etc. Got on top of eczema.
I was told that one of the reasons eczema is important in allergy is that if baby gets exposed to food proteins via the skin rather than digesting them they are more likely to be coded as foreign substance/threat to immune system and so baby becomes sensitised. So could have happened if we had just eaten peanut butter for example and handled DC when he had excoriated/eczematous skin eg when he had reaction to cradle cap shampoo.
Over a year later I got my apt with the NHS allergist. Now skin prick came up negative, as did a repeat skin prick, so we peanut challenged him at home (gave him ever increasing amounts of peanut) and he had no reaction. So he has grown out of his peanut allergy which is fantastic. I was never told to eliminate peanut from my diet whilst breastfeeding but I pretty much did as I didn't want to worry about contamination (from contact not through breast milk).

Youngest - again mild eczema at around 5 months old. As we were aware this could increase risk for allergy we treated this early. However when six months old and first ate porridge came up in hives. Again, by the time we'd have waited for an NHS allergy apt we'd have missed a really important window, especially as excluding dairy is such a big exclusion from a young child's diet and I didn't understand the advice for me to exclude dairy as I had been eating it for the whole 6 time I'd been breastfeeding and she was a happy baby with no symptoms of a reaction all that time. So off to private allergist again.
Skin prick came up positive to milk and peanut. Eczema reviewed and allergist felt it was just the dry kind of eczema babies get and unlikely to be anything to do with allergies. As she is in important window for possibly reducing allergy by exposure referred to NHS clinic where they do a peanut challenge. Unfortunately when they skin pricked her on the day of this challenge her reaction was too big to do a challenge, as she would be to likely to react badly. However her reaction to milk had improved so we did a step of the milk ladder (baked milk). She had no reaction to this. We have been told to stick at this step for a few months before reviewing it to see if she can move up. She must avoid peanuts and has an EpiPen.

All three allergists I have seen have said I personally do not need to exclude allergens from my diet whilst breastfeeding (peanut or milk) as my babies didn't have a reaction to my breastmilk, just the actual substance. I imagine this would have been different had I had unhappy, rashy babies with digestive issues or poor weight gain. The allergist advice differed from the Paeds/GP advice on this.
Allergist has referred me to a dietician to talk about youngest's diet. If this hadn't happened I would have spoken to allergy UK as they have dieticians that can speak to you once you have a diagnosis.

Sorry this has been such a long winded way of making the points that

• if you can I would pay for private testing as eliminating foods can increase risk of allergies and also has a huge impact on a growing baby's nutrition etc It also provides a bit of clarity as allergies can be so worrying and avoiding them such a large impact on daily life

• Their allergies do not automatically mean you should exclude foods from your diet if breastfeeding. GPs/Paeds aren't always best placed to advise on this. If you exclude dairy you need to take a calcium and vitamin d supplement yourself. However if you eat the allergens you have to be careful of contact etc (so I only eat dairy when youngest is in bed).

• There are different milk ladders for IgE/non-IgE allergies. A cup of milk contains thousands and thousands of times the amount of allergen that breastmilk etc would do which is why my youngest doesn't react to my breastmilk but came out in hives eating porridge. So please just don't give your kids a cup of cow's milk, it could cause a severe reaction and sensitise them more.

• When they are young this is an important time to expose them to allergens, if you need to push for advice on how to so this I would. You should be going up ladders etc with guidance. I wonder if you could have a private apt where they skin prick and then advise you on the next step/ladders etc all in one go. My private apts have been test + advice + referral to NHS service. The vast majority outgrow milk allergy so you want to be facilitating this and reducing the amount of time they don't eat it as much as possible.

• I would also push for dietician advice. Like I said I think allergy UK can provide this, they will also talk through with you the complexities of the situation because it really is complex!

• It is important to treat eczema as well as possible (again pushing for specialist advice if you need to) for preventing allergies too. My allergy apts have also included advice on eczema.

So that's my experience and understanding of milk allergies. Best of luck.

I wouldn't give them a full cup of cows milk OP, might make them feel awful and it won't be nice for you either.

I'm not sure if you have eczema but I do (heat/stress/dairy and sugar induced) and it's bloody awful and relentless and deeply psychological is the need to itch/damage cycle. So potentially giving a trigger and causing a reaction won't be pleasant.

The IMAP ladder looks worth a go as PPs have said.

I know it's stressful though checking every single thing. Currently going through process of having DD tested for egg/dairy/banana/tomato/chicken allergies 😖 v hard finding foods for her and she's BF too so managing my diet too is hard work. My sympathies to you 💐 x

So I gave them both a bit of malted milk earlier. DD went to bed happy as Larry. But she has now been crying inconsolably for an hour.

I understand you are tired but you NEED to see a GP. Or a different one. And go back if ypu are confused. You are on the early parenthood days of working yourself up over something and you cant see the woods for the trees.

It is utterly utterly irresponsible to give a child something you think they might be allergic or intolerant to.

Be an adult and follow the process. You cant possibly think you know better than doctors and dieticians that have studied their field for years. Go to a GP and follow their advice or ask for a dietician.

Have you tried goats milk? Apparently even I was small I couldnt tolerate cows milk but settled okay with goats milk. I then drank small amounts of cows milk when I was older. I still cannot stomach too much milk and cannot eat cream.