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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think gps need to unlock the doors/open properly

453 replies

Nousernameforme · 25/06/2021 08:05

Theres an article on the bbc about childrens a&e being overwhelmed by visits that aren't needed. Aibu to think that these people would have taken their children to the gp had they been able to? I know that they say a lot of them wouldn't have needed to see a gp but the viruses right now are horrible, probably due to everyones immune system being protected for a year, so it's harder to tell what needs help and what will get better on it's own.
My youngest has just got over the most awful virus which if it had not turned a corner when it did I would have got him medical assistance and if I can't get it from a gp I would have had to take him to a&e.

Our gp surgery is locked up the phone lines are only for those who have no internet and if you do get through all they do is put a request through on the ask my gp thing. I or members of my family have tried to see the dr for about 9 things this past year and got in once. 4 times we were prescribed antibiotics having not seen a dr.
Can we not have an official unlocking of the gp surgerys now please.

OP posts:
sparemonitor · 25/06/2021 14:18

@dreamingbohemian

Oh thanks *@sparemonitor* that's really interesting! That actually explains a lot pre-covid as well. Thanks for laying all that out.
you're welcome!
Bellasblankexpression · 25/06/2021 14:21

The other side of the coin is that people aren’t always choosing A&E they can’t get through to a doctor so ring 111 as advised and anything that needs checking out is sent to A&E

Although 111 can also request callbacks with your doctor as well now, but you can end up going round in circles if your GP won’t see you

NotPersephone · 25/06/2021 14:30

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Letsallscreamatthesistene · 25/06/2021 14:34

@NotPersephone

”Oh there’s a pandemic on and the NHS hasn’t had any money in years but things are crap because doctors are mean”?

NHS budget 20/21 - 212 billion

NHS pension - GP’s retiring now will receive 50% of their salary for life. So, back of fag packet calculations : A quick look at my practice suggests that average pay is £60k pa. Retirement at 60 for current GP’s teaching end of career. Say, 30-odd years x £30k = just shy of £1 million per GP. Any actuaries care to work out what sort of pot I’d need to purchase that sort of annuity?

There is plenty of money. It’s just not going on patient care. And the net recipients of all that largesse don’t even want to see you, in case you’re a plague rat.

What about wages/pension for the rest of the staff? What about dressings/supplies etc? What about building maintanece? GP budget doesnt just go on doctors....
NotPersephone · 25/06/2021 14:39

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Violinist64 · 25/06/2021 14:43

@sparemonitor. Ear infections can be extremely serious and not necessarily cause high temperatures. I have suffered severe problems all my life, which have also required major surgery. I think you cannot be too cautious when it comes to ears, particularly with small children. In any case, a worried parent with a small child with severe earache should be seen to be reassured if nothing else.

I am pleased for people who have been able to see their gp easily and for the hard-working doctors who have posted here. The reality for many of us is very different.

Letsallscreamatthesistene · 25/06/2021 14:44

[quote NotPersephone]@Letsallscreamatthesistene you’re just obfuscating the point - quite deliberately, I suspect. Are you suggesting that the NHS pension is anything other than insanely generous?

Again: there is plenty of money.[/quote]
Im really not. You quoted the entire budget then only worked out a portion of expenses, and then concluded there was plenty of money. Are you proposing pensions are cut in order to redirect money?

NotPersephone · 25/06/2021 14:44

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SpaceRaiders · 25/06/2021 14:46

I recently received an email from my GP practise essentially reminding patients that staff are doing their best, they’re under staffed and over worked and to bear this in mind when phoning for an appointment. I suspect they’ve had a barrage of abuse from patients, which whilst it’s unacceptable is not entirely surprising.

I rarely go to the doctors unless I absolutely have to. This year more so than normal. So I phone GP for an appointment the morning before, I call 87 times between 8 and 9.15am but by the time I’m at the top of the queue all the appointments are gone, “please try again tomorrow”. The next day I call 73 times and the same thing happens, when I get through the receptionist fobs me off and tells me to try again. When the same thing happens on day 3, I’m almost in tears with the sheer frustration of it all and being in pain. Receptionist finally schedules me an appointment that afternoon as an urgent case, I get a call back at 3pm and get a course of antibiotics.

Absolute madness.

NotPersephone · 25/06/2021 14:47

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Letsallscreamatthesistene · 25/06/2021 14:52

@NotPersephone

Are you proposing pensions are cut in order to redirect money?

Yes, I think that would be infinitely preferable to patients enduring this shitty service any longer.

DH has a NHS pension btw - so I’ve skin in the game here. I know exactly how insanely good it is - it’s immoral to retain that while patients suffer for lack of care.

And I referenced the whole budget in response to a PP who suggested that the NHS “had not had any money for years”… another untruth.

Yes but, you've still taken a tiny portion of expenses and concluded theres a load of money. Thats a ridiculous arguement. The budget is spread very thin. Look it up. Its not all wages and pensions.

That aside, ive never said the NHS pension isnt generous. Maybe the answer is to cut it and put the 'extra' money back into services. Ive no idea why you're being so aggressive.

user1471505494 · 25/06/2021 14:53

I used to have a high opinion of the Surgery I attend but I am unimpressed with the way these phone consultations are handled. I have found trying to discuss personal matters with myGP in company rather than privately due to phone calls back outside the times previously given.
I have been given wrong medication for a skin condition because they didn’t listen to what I was saying having already made their mind up about the diagnosis

Our local chemist is amazing and are doing blood pressure checks for me and giving advice on medical problems when I can’t even get a phone consultation

NotPersephone · 25/06/2021 14:57

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FixTheBone · 25/06/2021 15:03

@sparemonitor

We are open. I've seen patients face to face every working day of the pandemic. We have also been underfunded for the last 20 years and the gap between supply and demand is showing. Blame successive governments for year on year real terms funding cuts, because every GP bashing post like this pushes another GP towards leaving the profession.
This.

I'm not sure where all the 'shut' practices are.

My wife is a GP and has been working through the pandemic doing the exact same clinics, home visits. nursing home and psychiatric unit cover that she always has, plus now triaging and calling back dozens of self referrals that the government insists they have to offer online, but haven't offered any extra staff or pay in order to do so.

Not to mention the 'volunteering' in the vaccination centres.

Letsallscreamatthesistene · 25/06/2021 15:03

@NotPersephone

Yes but, you've still taken a tiny portion of expenses and concluded theres a load of money. Thats a ridiculous arguement. The budget is spread very thin. Look it up. Its not all wages and pensions.

I didn’t suggest it was. You’re conflating 2 separate points. I’ll simplify:

NHS budget - huge

NHS pension (enjoyed by GP’s even though not technically NHS employees) - final salary ie about 50% of salary at retirement, for life. Madly generous.

GP service - utter crap.

2 and 3 look particularly unattractive together, especially when GP’s (including on here) are wailing about underfunding being the cause of all their troubles.

Ok, if im conflating two separate points I dont think I understand your OP. Thats ok, I dont need to considering your main point seems to be cutting the NHS pension in favour of redirecting the money. I agree with you. Its been done in the military for years, the pension used to be great but its been whittled down for the sake of funding. It was used as a recruitment point but not anymore.

Note - I used to be in the army.

sparemonitor · 25/06/2021 15:11

[quote Violinist64]@sparemonitor. Ear infections can be extremely serious and not necessarily cause high temperatures. I have suffered severe problems all my life, which have also required major surgery. I think you cannot be too cautious when it comes to ears, particularly with small children. In any case, a worried parent with a small child with severe earache should be seen to be reassured if nothing else.

I am pleased for people who have been able to see their gp easily and for the hard-working doctors who have posted here. The reality for many of us is very different.[/quote]
If I am phoned about a school age child with ear pain, who is their usual self, eating, drinking, weeing, pain going away with paracetamol and it has been there for 12-24 hours, they don't need a doctor. Clearly if they are unwell with it that's different and if the parent is worried I will always see, but then I'll say that next time they are fine to trust their judgment if the child is well.

sparemonitor · 25/06/2021 15:12

@NotPersephone

Are you proposing pensions are cut in order to redirect money?

Yes, I think that would be infinitely preferable to patients enduring this shitty service any longer.

DH has a NHS pension btw - so I’ve skin in the game here. I know exactly how insanely good it is - it’s immoral to retain that while patients suffer for lack of care.

And I referenced the whole budget in response to a PP who suggested that the NHS “had not had any money for years”… another untruth.

If your DH is drawing his NHS pension then he has escaped the cuts that those of my generation will get. My pension pro rata will be about half of what your DH gets.
FixTheBone · 25/06/2021 15:13

@NotPersephone

Yes but, you've still taken a tiny portion of expenses and concluded theres a load of money. Thats a ridiculous arguement. The budget is spread very thin. Look it up. Its not all wages and pensions.

I didn’t suggest it was. You’re conflating 2 separate points. I’ll simplify:

NHS budget - huge

NHS pension (enjoyed by GP’s even though not technically NHS employees) - final salary ie about 50% of salary at retirement, for life. Madly generous.

GP service - utter crap.

2 and 3 look particularly unattractive together, especially when GP’s (including on here) are wailing about underfunding being the cause of all their troubles.

NHS budget - Huge, but about half of what other similarly wealthy countries spend per person.

NHS Pension - Hasn't been final salary since 2005, and had a reduced accrual rate from 2008, and you'd need to work to 75 to get 47% of your pay as pension, at the normal retirement age of 60 in the 1998 scheme, you'd get 32% of your salary as pension.

FixTheBone · 25/06/2021 15:18

Not sure how cutting the NHS pension (even more than it has been in the last 13 years) will help.

You'll have more money, but fewer staff to spend it on.

My predicted career remuneration has halved since the bankers immoral activities resulting in my pay being frozen for a decade and my pension terms being altered.

The pension is literally one of the few things keeping people in the NHS, if you think NHS staff remuneration is too much now, people are really not going to like having to stump up £75 up front every time they want an appointment.

Badbadbunny · 25/06/2021 15:23

@FixTheBone NHS Pension - Hasn't been final salary since 2005, and had a reduced accrual rate from 2008, and you'd need to work to 75 to get 47% of your pay as pension, at the normal retirement age of 60 in the 1998 scheme, you'd get 32% of your salary as pension.

How much is the tax free lump sum on top of the pension for life?

Letsallscreamatthesistene · 25/06/2021 15:24

[quote Badbadbunny]**@FixTheBone* NHS Pension - Hasn't been final salary since 2005, and had a reduced accrual rate from 2008, and you'd need to work to 75 to get 47% of your pay as pension, at the normal retirement age of 60 in the 1998 scheme, you'd get 32% of your salary as pension.*

How much is the tax free lump sum on top of the pension for life?[/quote]
Dont quote me but I think you either choose a tax free lump sum at the expense of the pension salary amount. So you either take a lump sum and a lower pension salary, or dont take the lump sum and have a higher pension salary.

FixTheBone · 25/06/2021 15:36

[quote Badbadbunny]**@FixTheBone* NHS Pension - Hasn't been final salary since 2005, and had a reduced accrual rate from 2008, and you'd need to work to 75 to get 47% of your pay as pension, at the normal retirement age of 60 in the 1998 scheme, you'd get 32% of your salary as pension.*

How much is the tax free lump sum on top of the pension for life?[/quote]
Depends on the scheme and how much of your pension you want to sacrifice.

In the 1998 Scheme 3x your pension. Plus up to 25% of the pension pot in exchange for an actuarially reduced pension amount.

In the 2005 Scheme up to 25% of your pension pot in exchange for a reduced pension, tax free if you have any remaining annual allowance (most doctors wont).

In the 2008 scheme, no lump sum.

FixTheBone · 25/06/2021 15:37

Sorry, last line should read 2015 scheme.

Beanybob · 25/06/2021 15:45

The doors at my surgery remain well and truly locked. My dentist, optician and hospital appts have all run smoothly and we're able to be seen without a fuss.

After 4 phone conversations with receptionists (so maybe 80 actual calls to get through), and several poorly communicated messages via them to and from the GP himself (about something which given the opportunity I could have explained in 5 minutes over the phone), I was finally permitted a phone appointment with him (3 days later between 8.30 and 12.30 - whatever, just relieved to get one at all). He orders a blood test and says speak to reception about booking it.

Call reception back (20ish calls) and ask to book a blood test and get cut off with "We don't do blood tests", which confused me as they very much do. I explained the GP had requested it if they want to check my notes. Much HUFFING and SIGHING later I was told in an exasperated tone "I can't print blood forms, my colleague will have to do it and she's on the phone". Ok? Ask if I can book the appt anyway, "no you can't book til you have the form printed". No further explanation. Ask what to do now. Told to call back later when it "might be printed" (I don't need the form - they only hand it over on arrival to give to the phlebotomist). Get through again later - new snappy receptionist, equally exasperated, "What? Yes it's printed and your appt is at 10am in two days". No one had told me that, so it was a good job I rang.

Turn up at the appointed hour and there is an elderly gentleman leaving the surgery battling with the door, so I hold it open for him and then go in. No one in waiting room. Approach the desk the required 2m away and say hello. Receptionist SHRIEKS like she's seen a ghost and yells at me "How did you get in here?!?!" Explained someone was leaving as I came in and got a lengthy explanation that the door should be LOCKED AT ALL TIMES (resisted suggesting that perhaps they see people out to make sure, especially elderly people with two walking sticks) and I should have pressed the BUZZER and WAITED TO BE SEEN. She took my details and made me wait outside while she found my form and then 30 seconds later I was allowed back in.

One of many receptionist run ins at my place and not the worst.

It's a good job I'm reasonably good at biting my tongue and keeping comments to myself. The attitude of the entire reception staff is revolting to me - it's no wonder they get abuse with the attitude they give off and complete lack of patience and empathy. If I spoke to people at reception where I work in the tone they spoke to me I would be put on a performance review. They don't have to be softly spoken and kind, just entirely neutral if they can't manage that. It's not the GP himself I have a problem with, it is the "triage" which is very poorly managed with piss poor communication by stroppy women who yes, are probably rushed off their feet, but so am I at work and I manage to be civil. If anyone at all calls and says they are unwell they should be assumed to be until proven otherwise by a doctor, especially if a child is involved, and not expected to bellow symptoms through a crackly door buzzer.

Rant over Wink

justasking111 · 25/06/2021 15:59

Anyone on FB notice the ads for private GP appointments I think this may be a growth market