To think that teachers are responsible for the school year

[Babymeanswashing]

Obviously, no other country has long school holidays in the summer. Five and a half weeks is obviously a lot, and given that non teaching spouses and non school age children get to take advantage of nice cheap holidays, I really think teachers need taking to task for this.

OK, there was obviously a heavy dose of sarcasm there in case it goes over anybody’s head, because I’ve been flamed for having the tenacity to teach and am ‘lucky’ because of the holidays.

I’m not fucking ‘lucky’! DP is paid over 80k a year, PLUS a car, PLUS a phone, PLUS gift cards for places like Argos on a regular basis for ‘loyal service.’ And while he has slightly less holiday than I do, he also has a lot more flexibility not only in the year but in his working day.

AIBU to say - go and train as a teacher if you think we are lucky. And I bloody love teaching BTW!

op people not reading the full articles in newspapers, for instance, & commenting on headings (which are frequently misleading & deliberately inflammatory in many cases, & not written by the authors of the piece) is at -ahem - epidemic levels.
So to those (non) readers! Op was being ironic & its a reverse!!!
Please note op - I use to be a registered cm for years my prep for art work or outings, my tax & paperwork, my shopping for dc food etc, my training (paid by me) was all done in "my" time & I loved the work & the dc (& I liked the parent/carers too!) So I appreciate that there is far more going on in the background with teachers than you see -especially this last year (& a bit)

Yanbu if you don't like your current job go and get another. That includes teachers and other professionals.

my point proved!

@Babymeanswashing

And you’re so lucky to have access to the internet, right? So it would be fair to bring this up every time you post because even though it’s not relevant, you’re lucky.

My friends do, a lot - if I complain about something else they'll say its worth it for your WFH/or at least you get I don't..... They don't have jobs with the same perk so there is an element of jealously about the good bits, it is just natural.

The point is I don't get sensitive about it.

@ChainJane

I agree, I mean you work from 9am to 3pm for 36 weeks a year, people should cut you some slack really.

Seriously though, you are lucky if you "bloody love" your job, whatever it may be. I don't see the relevance of comparing yourself to your DP, if you thought his work to benefits ratio is better than yours you are free to ditch teaching and get a job similar to his.

A Vicar's wife once commented on the 'short hours, long holidays' we teachers enjoy. She was apoplectic when I said that her OH was lucky to work 10-11am on Sunday with the odd hatched, matched and dispatched thrown in.
Perception is everything, how often do complainers on here expect 'the school' to solve their out of school problems, eg parking, on-line bullying at home when they don't have the guts to change the wifi password, etc., etc..

Even when someone loves their job I still think its reasonable to complain about the bits they don't like. Teachers seem to treated as though they are public property on account of their job, with every holiday and in service day grudged by the daily mail.

That being said Greenmarmalade Im surprised you haven't met non teachers working those hours. I work in IT and that's standard for me withoutconsideringany busy periods. Of my friends anyone in Legal, Compliance, Healthcare and even some arts works similar. Since I'm salaried none of that is overtime, and with the kind of workload that drives that I haven't used my full holiday allowance in about 10 years - I think thats far more common than you might think

There is little job security in teaching any more. Progression and pay progression is linked to performance, which is determined by a fairly arbitrary list of requirements.

Most training has to be funded by the teacher these days. Yes, there is a pension, but pensions are much more prevalent in most jobs .

The salary is pro rata. Holidays are unpaid, but the salary is averaged out over twelve months, so there is a salary each month.

Most jobs have advantages and disadvantages. There are some though, that attract huge bonuses. I recall reading about someone who had a reduced bonus one year. Only enough to pay for a package holiday abroad.

Maybe a comparison would be to look at stress levels indifferent careers.

I enjoyed some of it, hated some of it and tolerated some of it. I did it for a long time too. I wouldn’t choose teaching again.

I don't think YABU as such OP but also am not sure of the point of this, nor do I think anyone needs their 'comprehension' assessed lacking just to be PA.

Teachers work hard as do we all, all walks of employment are frustrating and full of red tape or become not what we signed up for, especially during the pandemic. If someone avoids that, or likes their job in spite of it then good for them, that's brilliant!

However, the privilege of an upbringing that guided one towards a degree and in turn a respected profession, via the relevant grades and support (understanding how to apply, parents to guide and encourage, good schooling, impartment of work ethic, parents who did degrees themselves etc) is a huge privilege in itself, and in turn so is a secure job, (relatively) high starting salary that climbs and a pension scheme.

It isn't assuming someone is akin to 'aristocracy' or even well off to make that valid point. Privilege is present in many forms.

I have taught, and had other jobs. My opinions on which were harder aren't relevant to anybody but me really, albeit it would be untrue to say teaching was the more stressful or more time consuming (hours worked, holiday untaken, workload) in my case. That doesn't make it universal.

OP, have you been talking to Gavin Williamson or Michael Gove? They certainly do not appreciate the value of teachers and education.

Neither do entitled parents, of whom there are too many in my opinion.

I think what a lot of people don't realise about teaching now is that in some council areas a teacher is just a number. The authority does not care if they are particularly good or particularly bad at their job, as long as a person is in the room. In some cases you can be literally described as 'surplus' and moved to another school, sometimes a number of times. Promotions are often blocked for funding reasons. Mat leave and even retirement is frequently never permanently covered to ensure permanent contracts are avoided (£) and they don't really care if it means whole classes suffer as a result. Many, many authorities run their schools like a factory. And every person in the building suffers as a result. But no one cares, as long as kids are 'looked after' I.e babysat. I am, however, yet to meet a single teacher who thinks this is an acceptable way to treat the children in their care. Maybe that explains why they're lacking in job satisfaction?

I think you’re lucky, other teachers and tutors also work really hard but don’t have the benefits of sick pay or holiday pay. At least you get paid the same every month for 12 months of the year.

That’s not luck, it’s choice.

I don’t want to do something else. It’s a great job, it fits in nicely around my own family, it pays well and I enjoy it

That's great. Genuinely, pleased for you. In which case, why moan?

What a very stupid question. The fact that some jobs are inherently interesting, rewarding, enjoyable or of great value to society does not mean that they can't also have inadequate pay, poor working conditions, unmanageable working hours or all kinds of issues which make life difficult for its employees.

Are you really suggesting that, for example, a doctor, nurse, teacher or careworker has no justification for complaining about any aspects of their job, just because they love working with their students/patients? Maybe you're right and they should all quit rather than 'moan'.

• Meant to say, I realise the OP finds teaching well paid. I was merely pointing out that just because some things about a job are great, that doesn't mean there can't be untenably bad things about it. I'm tired of people saying to teachers "Teaching is cushy, you've got nothing to moan about. If you don't like it, leave." It's not so simple to leave when it's all you've ever done. And there already aren't enough teachers (especially in certain subjects).

I’m fairly sure the U.K. has the shortest school holidays than any other country in Europe

Incorrect. Some southern European countries have more, but many in central and northern Europe are comparable with that of the UK and some (Germany, for example) even less.

@Iamanaubergine

I genuinely think teachers do work hard & in the main do a great job. I do also think they earn a decent wage and have generous annual leave.

I don’t understand the pay structure though and why school support staff are paid pro rata as they’re term time only (often plus a couple of weeks) when teachers are not pro rata’d.

We do work pro-rata. I’m not technically paid for August because I’m not ‘working’ (I am because my classroom needs set up, I go through planning for the following year, I read books ahead of teaching them, etc.) but I get my monthly pay because the days I’m paid for are split into 12 so I get money every month.

The pay scale is based on my performance management. I have to pass my PM review every year to move up to the next pay level.

@ChainJane

I agree, I mean you work from 9am to 3pm for 36 weeks a year, people should cut you some slack really.

Seriously though, you are lucky if you "bloody love" your job, whatever it may be. I don't see the relevance of comparing yourself to your DP, if you thought his work to benefits ratio is better than yours you are free to ditch teaching and get a job similar to his.

You think teachers just turn up and teach with no preparation?

if you thought his work to benefits ratio is better than yours you are free to ditch teaching and get a job similar to his.

What, regardless of whether the OP has the relevant training or qualifications etc?

The problem is, everyone thinks they know everything about teaching, on the basis that they've all been to school. They call it a cushy job, and then when teachers (understandably) object and point out why it's not cushy, everyone accuses them of claiming that teaching is the only hard job, whereas I've never, ever, ever heard a teacher say that.

I mean, seriously... what teacher would claim that no other jobs are comparably hard? It would be a batshit thing to say tbh. They are hard in different ways. It's not unreasonable to point out specific ways in which a certain job is harder than most others, while being fully aware that this is not the case for all aspects of that job. Also, it's not ok to accuse the teaching profession as a whole of being workshy moaners just because you're fed up with hearing your teacher friend/SIL/cousin of banging on about how hard their job is.

I can’t think of any other job that compares in terms of hours worked after/before work and at weekends. I don’t know anyone apart from teachers who do 2-3 hours in the evening after working 8-5 (briefings, meetings, after school cpd, detentions, clubs) and 4 hours at weekends. And it can be much more.

Plenty of jobs do.

Teaching is hard and underappreciated, but it's daft to think it's the only hard job and the only one where people have to work long hours outside of their contracted hours.

I work for a company that sells supplies to schools. We've had several teachers join us over the years - they've all chosen to go back to teaching.

I agree, I mean you work from 9am to 3pm for 36 weeks a year, people should cut you some slack really

What a load of bollocks. You literally have no idea about the hours that teachers work. My DD is a teacher. She still lives at home, so I see the work she does. She get's to school for 7.45am. The pupils leave at 3pm. From 3pm to 630pm she has meetings, marking, and planning meetings and preparation for the next day. She has dinner with us at 7pm. Then she works from 730pm until she goes to bed at 11pm. This is a mix of catching up on e-mails, preparing for the next day, printing materials, preparing reports, marking and so on. She literally has no social life during term time.

I used to work for a Bank, and we had a little team that would teach pupils about money. Part of my job was liaising with Teachers about lessons. On hundreds of occasions, I received e-mails from them as late as midnight.

If you've never been a teacher, then quite simply, you don't know what you're talking about.

Even the hardest of thinking must realise, that if you're teaching from 9am - 3pm, that there has to be extra hours worked on top of this for :

• marking homework
• staff meetings
• preparing lessons (it takes 10 hours of prep to make a 1 hour lesson)
• printing practicals *replying to e-mails
• making up pupil reports
• liaising with outside agencies regarding children with additional needs or children who are deemed to be at risk
• having your own appraisals
• making decorations for the classroom
• buying resources for lessons

Honestly, I could go on, and on and on.

My mother was a teacher and so is my sister and brother in law. They have tough days, have to do work at home to prep etc. Same as I do as an HR Manager for the Fire Service. They love the extended summer holidays. Tbh I've never been envious of it because I'd be bored! Lol.

I'm a bit confused about the point of this thread tbh....I can understand that u get wound up when people say u have it easy. Smile, nod and let em crack on. I don't see teaching as any tougher or and easier than lots of other occupations.

Glad you love the job though. Makes all the difference!! 😁

As a teacher I don’t really care what anyone thinks about the holidays- I just enjoy them.

I think it's the exceptionalism which all us non teachers find annoying. If teachers were prepared to accept other professions work long hours we'd not feel as irritated. But you do tend to act particularly hard done by.

It makes teachers seem pretty self absorbed tbh. I don't know if this is because you're stuck in a school culture or what. But I think you'd get further if you didn't act like teachers were the only ones who work hard, and that someone was holding a gun to your head forcing you to be a teacher.

I think it's the exceptionalism which all us non teachers find annoying. If teachers were prepared to accept other professions work long hours we'd not feel as irritated. But you do tend to act particularly hard done by.

This is made up though. Really, honestly, hand on heart, what proportion of teachers do you actually believe think that no other professions work long hours? How many teachers have you actually heard say that? Because I've been a teacher for 25 years and I have never heard a teacher say it.